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Gangsta G
-27th March 2005, 10:57
Who introduced this rule, and why? As far as I am aware it is a BFA rule not an FIE rule, and personally I don't think it makes sense that you should have to make a L32 at an A-Grade in order to qualify for the worlds

For example, a few years ago Peter Kirby was 3rd in the Junior Sabre rankings, and Alex O'Connell was 4th, however Alex had a L32 and Pete didn't, so Alex went to the worlds instead of Pete. For me, this really doesn't make sense.

Also a number of men's sabruers made L32s at the Logrono A Grade, however (despite being an A Grade) it was deemed 'too weak,' so because none of them got a L16 none of them got a worlds qualifier.

Please can someone explain?

doobarz
-27th March 2005, 11:24
I believe this rule exists for several reasons. There is a very limited amount of funding available for international events, so the BFA want to spend it on people they think will make a good result aty the Worlds/ Europeans. The way they, via the International committee have decided to judge this is on A Grade results. First you must attaian a level to be selected for an A Grade, and then you must get a L32 there (if the NIF is high enough).

Your right it is a BFA rule not an FIE rule - each country can select their own criteria.

PM1
-27th March 2005, 11:58
So far as I am aware, no junior receives any funding to go to the worlds from the BFA, even having achieved a L32 or better. I understand what funding there is available via BFA (other than some £250/£500 grants of Sport UK money or whatever it is called now) goes to seniors. Boy went to Plovdiv last year and received a small but welcome grant from the fund raising activities of boys cadet, but none from any other fencing source.

I'd be deligted for someone to put me right, but expect all those who can do so are likely to be in Linz at the moment.

Not looked today, but I expect the reasoning for such decisions (L32/doling out funding) are not on the BFA web site, and should be, but when I have a few hours to spare, I might just look.:mad:

And the "too weak" arguement ticks me off: what is weak one year is likely not to be next, as those countries that don't take that attitude seem to capitalise on it and send their teams to compete and get world ranking points.:mad: :mad:

doobarz
-27th March 2005, 12:03
Originally posted by PM1
So far as I am aware, no junior receives any funding to go to the worlds from the BFA,

I don't think the funding nessecarilly goes to the fencers, but may cover the officials expenses?? Not sure.

I'm not saying I agree with the criteria - I think we should be sending as many people as possible to all events, but the money has to come from somewhere....

aao
-27th March 2005, 12:13
The rule exists mostly because of pressure that UK sport put on the BFA, asking that in return for continued funding the BFA sets increasingly high standards for its fencers to achieve. (part of the 10 year development plan i believe)

Each year therefor the bar has got higher for those wanting to go to the junior or senior worlds/europeans. I think the current target is something like a L16 and a L32 for the seniors. I understand the reasoning behind it and would agree to it for most proffesional sports, but for fencing i feel that its been implemented far too fast and withouth taking into consideration how much harde the senior A-grades have become in the past few years.

PM1
-27th March 2005, 12:45
Originally posted by doobarz
I don't think the funding nessecarilly goes to the fencers, but may cover the officials expenses?? Not sure.

How would that work with the FENCERS having to get the results ??? And I u/stand the FIE now pays its refs. Coaches and managers' exs - I'll hold my peace on that one for the minute, as I have mixed views.

I don't MIND there being requirements being put on fencers to achieve to participate SO LONG AS they are at least included in the list of the ones being funded.

I'm not yet a full memeber (oh, do I feel the expenditure coming on), but is there enough info in the accounts to tell us where the money goes all you who ARE full members and get the relevant docs??

PM1
-27th March 2005, 12:47
Originally posted by aao
The rule exists mostly because of pressure that UK sport put on the BFA, asking that in return for continued funding the BFA sets increasingly high standards for its fencers to achieve. (part of the 10 year development plan i believe)

....... I understand the reasoning behind it and would agree to it for most proffesional sports.

I DON'T understand the reasoning behind it OR how people qualify for funding. That's just 2 of my problems....:( more reading to come, no doubt......:rolleyes:

gbm
-27th March 2005, 15:42
Hopefully with the recent huge increase in funding, we can actually start funding fencers...

PM1
-27th March 2005, 15:57
I've just had a very interesting email convo, which has explained a lot to me (cos i'm dim today).

Whilst I;m still hesitant to say I understand the reasoning behind the bar being as it is (L32), I do understanad that it's about ensuring our fencers can "cut the mustard" in the big wide world.

The bit I haven't yet found the answer to is - if a junior/cadet attains a L32 in a nominated Junior A grade, what funding is there, what for and how long for. If you achieve one, I'd hope you achieved the other, too.

PM1
-27th March 2005, 16:17
Keith's recent letter re funding and how it will be used, tho' not much about the latter:

News From The President

March 2005



Funding for Fencing

I would like to start this edition of my News with the excellent financial news that we have received from UK Sport. In recognition of British Fencing having achieved all the Key Performance Indicators that we set ourselves in 2000 and in particular the excellent results achieved by Louise Bond-Williams in making the Senior World Final in 2002 and the top 16 at the Athens Olympic Games and Richard Kruse also making the Senior World Final in 2003 and then making the final in Athens which was the icing on the cake given that during the period 2000 to 2004 we have had two Junior European Champions (Laurence Halsted and Richard Kruse) and also two European Junior Team medals (Womenís Sabre and Menís Foil) not to mention eight Cadet or Junior World Championships finalists, UK Sport have awarded us World Class Performance Funding. This will be £180,000 per year and in addition we will receive World Class Administration funding of £85,000 per yea. This equals £265,000 per year which is an increase of £125,000 per year over our previous UK Sport grant. Also they have awarded us four Athlete Personal Awards which are worth £9,000 per year to the recipients. Thus we will be receiving £301,000 per year. I am also very pleased that John Ramsay has successfully negotiated £50,000 per year from Sport England so that fencing at BFA and England level will be receiving £351,000 per year. We are still awaiting news from Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland but clearly fencing is on a financial up turn. The vast majority of this funding will be "ring fenced" against specific and measurable projects. I would like to thank all the fencers who have contributed by their excellent fencing to this achievement and also to Graham Watts who has worked tirelessly on our behalf. I should also add that Graham is currently employing James Beevers on a full time and also Chrystall Nicoll and Jo Hutchison during their gap years. This has allowed Chrystall and Jo to train more fully. In addition Jon Willis is now employed by B &Q and has to work part time but is paid full time. Clearly this will allow him to train and compete more fully. I would like to appeal to any other potential employers to contact either Keith Smith or Graham Watts, as we like to launch a wider "adopt a fencer" scheme.