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fencerbill
-25th August 2005, 21:10
Sabre.

A fencer attacks. His opponent retreats but drops his point in an attempt to score on the cuff.

To me, that is an Attack and an immediate Riposte. Some might call it Attack and Counter Attack.

Now this is the question. Who then has the right of way to riposte, the attacker or the counter attacker?

I have been told by some low to mid level US Sabre fencers that their coach, who is also an International "B" Sabre referee, says that the counter attacker has the right of way to riposte.

This seems wrong to me. If the person who originally is being attacked either counter attacks or ripostes immediately and unsuccessfully then I think they have used up their right of way and the original attacker has the right of way to counter riposte.

And please don't tell me "That is the way they are calling it in Europe!" That doesn't necessarily make it right.

fencingmaster
-26th August 2005, 07:39
A fencer attacks. His opponent retreats but drops his point in an attempt to score on the cuff.

You cannot have a riposte without a parry...t.7

Canis
-26th August 2005, 08:33
Originally posted by fencerbill

And please don't tell me "That is the way they are calling it in Europe!" That doesn't necessarily make it right. [/B]

You poor deluded transatlantic cousin:grin: never forget the rulebook is there to be interpreted however the folks in europe want( that doesn't include us in britain BTW):grin:

As Fencingmaster says theres no such thing as a reposte without there being a parry.

Assuming the replacement of the attack is not delayed, it will have sway over the replacement of the counterattack

tigger
-28th August 2005, 08:21
At least that's the way they're calling it in Europe ;)

So far you haven't said that the original attack has failed, so it's still got priority anyway!

gbm
-28th August 2005, 16:04
There is not enough specific information in your question...

First ask yourself - has the attack failed? It has failed if:
a) you cut, and miss, requiring a replacement, or
b) the hit does not arrive at the latest as the front foot hits the floor at the end of the lunge in a simple lunge, a simple step-lunge attack or a compound attack by step lunge, OR immediately after in the case of a compound attack by lunge only, ;) (and yes, I got that roughly right without looking, though I did check)
c) or the compound attack is successfully stop cut and hits before the final action BEGINS.

If the attack has failed, then you look at the next action. Four possibilities here...
a) The counter-attack, begun before any renewal by the attacker (possibly begun before the attack has been caused to fail), begins, and then hits without itself failing. Counter-attackers point.
b) The counter-attack and the renewal of the attack begin simulataneous... this is a slightly delayed counter-attack, since it must begin after the attack has failed, and leave sufficient time for the attacker to regroup and re-attack... No point.
c) The counter-attack is delayed significantly and the renewal of the attack begins before it. This is the original attackers point.
d) Both fencers actions fail... repeat above for the renewal of the renewal of the attack and the renewal of the counter-attack.

In the classic case of one fencer attacks, the other leans out of the way/dodges etc., and stop cuts, 99% of the time the counter-attack precedes any renewal by the attacker.


I think :)