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Hassan
-16th September 2005, 17:09
Not sure whether this has been mentioned on the forum yet. Has serious implications for Cadets and Cadets born January - April 15th of the relevant year.

(BTW President of this commission is British)

From FIE Rules Commission minutes (15/9/2005)


Proposition 9

o.76 Competitors in the World Junior Championships, Individual and Team, must be less than 20
years of age on 15 April of the year in which the World Championship is held.
Competitors in the World Cadet Championships must be less than 17 years of age on 15 April of
the year in which the World Cadet Championship is held
Opinion of the Commission : in favour

randomsabreur
-16th September 2005, 17:44
I think its ridiculous really - fencing has always worked on an age as at calender year basis, why move to the middle of the year. There has never been an age as at Worlds criterion, and I don't really see why there should be provided that everyone is working to the same age limit.

Fortunately Alex O'C is exactly the right age... - April 17th birthday per sabre rankings...

Baldric
-16th September 2005, 17:47
Does the proposal state when this would come into effect?

And does it suggest that the Cadet WC will continue? I thought that 2006 was to be the last?

If it should ever effect Baldric Jnr, lucky girl is in by 6 days.......

oiuyt
-16th September 2005, 18:10
Originally posted by randomsabreur
I think its ridiculous really - fencing has always worked on an age as at calender year basis,

Veteran Worlds doesn't. As I recall, for vets the cut-off date is as of the first of the month in which the Championships are held (which, of course, means that it moves around year-to-year, making the whole situation even harder).

-B

tigger
-19th September 2005, 08:03
If this is to come into immediate effect it will impact cadets/juniors who are already into the qualifying tournaments for the 2006 worlds...another stupid and pointless idea from the FIE!

Don't they realise that coaches actually have medium and long-term development aims for the fencers and that this pointless change will have a major effect on some people. If this happens straight away, in MS this would immediately take out the current top 2 cadets from the 2006 Worlds.

pinkelephant
-19th September 2005, 08:52
Originally posted by tigger
If this is to come into immediate effect it will impact cadets/juniors who are already into the qualifying tournaments for the 2006 worlds...another stupid and pointless idea from the FIE!

Don't they realise that coaches actually have medium and long-term development aims for the fencers and that this pointless change will have a major effect on some people. If this happens straight away, in MS this would immediately take out the current top 2 cadets from the 2006 Worlds.

Surely it would mean MORE would qualify by age, not fewer. Current date is 1/1 of the year in which the chamionships are held - this would be extended by 4 months

tigger
-19th September 2005, 09:56
Nope!

If your birthday's January 2nd 1999 you're under 17 on January 1st 2006 but not on April 15th 2006.

UglyBug
-19th September 2005, 10:10
Speaking of ages, at what age can kids enter opens. Is it the season in which they turn 13 or as soon as they have turned 13, not before. Apparently there was someone in one of the events at Bristol who was 12

tigger
-19th September 2005, 10:16
You have to be 13 or over on the Jan 1st of the season in question. So if they were 13 or over on Jan 1st 2006 they would be eligible....

Neil Brown
-19th September 2005, 10:18
Fencers must be 13 on the 1st January in the season concerned, the season is 12 months starting on the 1st Sept.

For this season, 05-06, fencers must be born in 92 or earlier to enter events open to fencers aged 18+, i.e. open & U20 events.

UglyBug
-19th September 2005, 10:19
Originally posted by tigger
You have to be 13 or over on the Jan 1st of the season in question. So if they were 13 or over on Jan 1st 2006 they would be eligible....

I see - their birthday is in a few weeks, so that makes sense

pinkelephant
-19th September 2005, 12:35
Originally posted by tigger
Nope!

If your birthday's January 2nd 1999 you're under 17 on January 1st 2006 but not on April 15th 2006.

Oops - and I'm suppoed to be numerate. Mind you, didn't get home till 1a.m. - motorhome doesn't move quite as fast as the Porsche (or even the Fiat with Jimmy at the wheel.................)

Great CD by the way.

tigger
-19th September 2005, 13:09
Great CD by the way

Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it!

Glue Boy
-19th September 2005, 16:28
Well done FIE, another great move for youth Fencing! :mad:

Glue Boy
-19th September 2005, 16:45
Sorry to double post here but:

Do these people realise how hard some of us cadets work! First of all they tell us the worlds will be gone for futures seasons, now they are saying it may be back but we are changing the age! Out of intrest if you are a January birthday (like me!) or Febuary or March then will you still be a cadet for that season but unable to do the Worlds. Does anybody know when this is coming into affect?

pinkelephant
-19th September 2005, 20:38
As far as I can see it's just a recommendation from the Rules Committee at the moment - it will have to be discussed at a congress at some time. So don't get your knickers in a twist ...............yet.

Louis CB
-19th September 2005, 20:55
Is there some way all the GBR Cadets can pitch together and give a unanimous NO! to this idea?

We could even try and a kind of European petition going - get all the European cadets to sign a multilingual petition against it - although this might be harder.

Thing is, sitting around badmouthing Roch on a forum isn't going to help...

Glue Boy
-19th September 2005, 21:02
this is a good idea i would be part of it

But i judt don't understand Roch's thinking in the slightest! ...ranting

Louis CB
-19th September 2005, 21:14
Originally posted by Glue Boy
this is a good idea i would be part of it

But i judt don't understand Roch's thinking in the slightest! ...ranting

Don't even try...

But cheers for the support m8

Glue Boy
-27th September 2005, 15:25
does any body know whats happening with this?

Marcos
-27th September 2005, 15:32
was any reason given - seems a bit random....

Glue Boy
-28th October 2005, 11:29
does anybody know anymore on this now?

Boo Boo
-28th October 2005, 12:09
Originally posted by Glue Boy
does anybody know anymore on this now?

FIE Congress is this November (so soon) - that should be when they make a decision...

Boo

Australian
-28th October 2005, 13:36
affects juniors too :(

I'll miss my last year if it goes through.

Glue Boy
-28th October 2005, 19:34
Originally posted by Boo Boo
FIE Congress is this November (so soon) - that should be when they make a decision...

Boo

thanks

Clare Halsted
-28th October 2005, 21:25
Your comments were passed on to the Chair of the FIE Rules Commission and they were asked to re-consider this proposal. At the BF Rules Committee meeting it was agreed that the GBR vote to this proposal would be No.

Clare

tigger
-31st October 2005, 11:07
Thanks for a clear concise piece of information. And a sensible GB vote!

Keith.A.Smith
-31st October 2005, 12:20
Dear All,

We will be voting NO to this age group change and also No to seperating the Junior and Cadet World Championships which I believe is a precursor to abandoning the Cadet World Champs.

In Europe over half the countries want to cancel the Cadet World Champs in the future but we will be voting yes to continue them.

I have had words with the President of the Rules Commission who is indeed a Brit!!!

Keith

Australian
-31st October 2005, 13:54
Originally posted by Keith.A.Smith
Dear All,

We will be voting NO to this age group change and also No to seperating the Junior and Cadet World Championships which I believe is a precursor to abandoning the Cadet World Champs.

In Europe over half the countries want to cancel the Cadet World Champs in the future but we will be voting yes to continue them.

I have had words with the President of the Rules Commission who is indeed a Brit!!!

Keith


thanks so much keith

PM1
-31st October 2005, 17:41
Originally posted by Keith.A.Smith
Dear All,

We will be voting NO to this age group change and also No to seperating the Junior and Cadet World Championships which I believe is a precursor to abandoning the Cadet World Champs.

In Europe over half the countries want to cancel the Cadet World Champs in the future but we will be voting yes to continue them.

I have had words with the President of the Rules Commission who is indeed a Brit!!!

Keith

And I add Tigger's comments in here....thank you.

Do you have know the reasoning behind the proposed change of date? (or have I not read it ?)

Foilling Around
-31st October 2005, 20:04
I understand the logic is that fencers whould actually be under the relevant age when they compete.

At present a fencer can be 20 years and 4 months and competing in the under 20 event and the equivelant with the under 17 event

It is a silly reason as this happens in all sports all round the world. Taking ages on calendar years is so much easier.

PM1
-31st October 2005, 21:07
Oh come ON...that can't possibly be correct - it's almost sensible, and this is the FIE we are talking about.....:mad:

(but thanks for the [probable] explantion)

I agree with you: calendar year is best. It ain't broke, so no need to fix.

rugmike
-2nd November 2005, 09:40
Keith, V. good news on both courses of action by B.F.
Lots of strength to yer arm!

Jan O'C
-3rd November 2005, 19:43
Just to play devil's advocate - I'd be quite happy with the new proposal re cut off dates. Alex would be in by 2 days (as Random Sabreur pointed out) and Grace, at long last, would not have to be just about absolutely the youngest person in her age group (27 Dec birthday - even more annoying as she was due on 20 January). The only thing that gives her any comfort is that Nikolas Limbach (Current World U/20 Sabre Champion) has a birthday of 29 Dec and it doesn't look like its done him much harm!

tigger
-8th November 2005, 12:07
Limbach is also 7th in the SENIOR world rankings...and still only 19.

Australian
-8th November 2005, 12:28
congress is this weekend.

fingers crossed that they revoke this.

Jan O'C
-8th November 2005, 12:29
Sad thing is I can remember him as a weedy little 13 year old who fenced for Belgium and burst into tears every time he lost! Then he disappeared off the scene for a while and returned fencing for Germany, also about 2 feet taller and as a very mature, controlled fencer! Certainly now he must be one of the best potentials in international fencing.
By the way, Tigger, I heard you and a.n.other(s) had gone clubbing on Saturday night in Koln - how was the head on Sunday bearing in mind you didn't look your best on Saturday!!

tigger
-10th November 2005, 22:30
I personally thought I looked stunning on Saturday...

I didn't actually go clubbing - just to a cool jazz bar and restaurant with a couple of well-know ne'er do wells. Didn't drink (well 1 glass of red) so was fine thanks - but two solid days with LOTS of kids took its toll.

UglyBug
-10th November 2005, 22:54
You're always beautiful Tigger.

Except when you're not...

rugmike
-11th November 2005, 10:16
I thought he looked at his best when seated on a bench, in a row with Neil, Peter , and Ian.They didn't have hands over eyes,mouth and ears, but they did look like they wanted to fly home for the winter ! PS well done Glueboy.

Jan O'C
-11th November 2005, 12:22
Originally posted by tigger
I personally thought I looked stunning on Saturday...

I didn't actually go clubbing - just to a cool jazz bar and restaurant with a couple of well-know ne'er do wells. Didn't drink (well 1 glass of red) so was fine thanks - but two solid days with LOTS of kids took its toll.

As always you are quite right - you did indeed look stunning on Saturday. I hear that that particular shade of green is very 'in' this season.

If 2 solid days with lots of kids took its toll on you, spare a thought for Neil who had 4 days of it, not to mention trying to keep track of who was doing what, where and when (did you see his lists - very impressive!)

tigger
-11th November 2005, 12:36
I know - the man's insane. I would never dream of running a trip that size. Besides the litigation potential, I'd probably have strangled one or more people within 48 hours.

Jan O'C
-11th November 2005, 13:28
and that would have just been the German coaches & refs!

Glue Boy
-13th November 2005, 15:59
whats happening about age changes now then? What have the FIE said?

Glue Boy
-13th November 2005, 15:59
whats happening about age changes now then? What have the FIE said?

Foilling Around
-13th November 2005, 16:07
And what about the future of the Cadet Worlds themselves?

Glue Boy
-13th November 2005, 20:24
i've heard that they are keeping the worlds until 2007 then thinking about it again, but this is only what i've heard.

i've heard nothing on the age changes

Foilling Around
-13th November 2005, 20:37
As usual, putting off decisions. Roche doesn't want it but the majority of the rest of the world do. So instead of accepting he has lost he will put it off for another year and hope he can "persuade" others to "see his point of view".

NOTE: There are disadvantages to not being anonymous, I wrote a first draft of this and then realised it was libelous and my name was on it!

Let's hope that 2007 is not as far away as Korea! 2 years of that cost would break the bank (unless I am successful in my frantic sponsorship search)

PM1
-14th November 2005, 00:39
I heard a rumour 07 was due to be Turkey....yummy!!

Neil Brown
-14th November 2005, 08:42
Izmir, TUR.

This was decided by the FIE in March this year, details at http://www.fie.ch/download/letters/2005/info/7/en/releve%20des%20decisions%20AG-ANG.pdf

Stephen Chivers
-15th November 2005, 14:57
Izmir was designated back in March but that didn't necessarily mean that the events would actually happen. Can we now safely relax and start saving for the next fifteen months?

Stephen Chivers
-15th November 2005, 19:38
quote:
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Originally posted by Keith.A.Smith

The decision to abolish the cadet world championships was not formally a proposal and was then about to be voted on if the Congress unanimously accepted voting on it so I simply objected to the vote and was only one of 2 nations brave enough to put up my no vote.

This means the cadets canot be discussed again till 2007 Congress and fortunately Egypt has offered to host Juniors and Cadets in 2008 so I think they are safe till 2008 at least.

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Our marvellous President has answered this in the Off Piste / FIE Congress in Doha thread so it's now time for a period of austerity!