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Boo Boo
-11th October 2005, 23:16
An amusing little aside from the fencing channel blog (http://www.fencingchannel.tv/blog.htm)

4:20 pm

Cassara (Ita) is having a hard time against France's Beaudan. 14-9 Beaudan. Cassara is getting very upset and irritated. When Beaudan attacked and fell over, clutching his ankle... Casarra went over to his prone figure, and tested his weapon.

4:21 pm

Cassara out by Beaudan. "That's history."

doobarz
-12th October 2005, 08:53
Taken from the news section of fencing2005.com


11.10.05 17:10
2003 World Champion Peter Joppich (GER, foil) drops out 10:15 against James Beevers (GBR) in round of last 32
„I did not really get into the bout and that also explains why I was eight points down in the beginning. The referee took some controversial decisions and my opponent was not penalized for blocking his body with his head. The fast flicking shoulder touches that I have been using successfully until now are no longer allowed under the new rules. I had great plans for these championships but that’s what fencing is like, things can also go wrong.”

Boo Boo
-12th October 2005, 09:00
sour grapes?

So suddenly for this world championships they brought in a special rule to ban Joppich's shoulder flicks??? :rolleyes: He has had as long as everyone else to get used to the new timings... :confused:

asylum-seeker
-12th October 2005, 09:21
Originally posted by doobarz
"The fast flicking shoulder touches that I have been using successfully until now are no longer allowed under the new rules."
LOL, poor chap!! It was really unfair not to tell him about the new timings sooner!

Gav
-12th October 2005, 09:29
According to the FencingChannel blog the ref in Beevers' match against Kudayev took some controversial decision that lost Beevers 2 points.


Beevers (GBR) is out, eliminated by Kudayev (Russia) 11-10 when the time ran out. Beevers gave up at least 2 touches to penalties for (?) showing the back of the head, and or corps-a-corps. Some penalties seemed a bit suspect. Beevers very nearly became top 8!!

It does seem like a sour grapes statement, but consider that this is possibly a poor German-English translation (especially if you've read Escrime).

Boo Boo
-12th October 2005, 09:49
Originally posted by Gav
According to the FencingChannel blog the ref in Beevers' match against Kudayev took some controversial decision that lost Beevers 2 points.

There is a bit of "inconsistency" between referees at A-grade level - some penalise "head dipping" more than others... some do not penalise it much at all, others will penalise you if your face is dipped by 1 degree.

I lost a fight in a poule in an A-grade (4:4 we were in extra time) for dipping my head a little bit (red card - second offence). What the referee didn't seem to see was the reason my head dipped was because I had just been punched in the face by my opponent's guard... :confused:

Still, in the Beevers fight, it SEEMS as though it is just one of the things Joppich is blaming - maybe someone who was there might post on the subject (as Gav says, some quotes don't translate well from German to English...)

Insipiens
-12th October 2005, 15:35
Basically in the first two minutes Beevers walked all over joppich who was I think rushing things a bit. If I recall correctly Beevers first eight hits included a couple of duck stop hits, and Joppich did complain to the ref about this. The ref's signals implied his head was upright and he was therefore happy.

But from abou the two minute mark it was a little more even. Beevers fenced really really well, and got two or three outrageous parry sixte flick ripostes to back. He didn't get over excited when in front and absolutely deserved to win.

He definitely deserved to win the L16 as well. Beevers got a total of four red cards to the Uzbek's one. Of the cards Beevers got three (plus his original yellow) for covering with his right arm during in-fighting. the other one was for passivity; the Uzbek got one card for ducking his head down to show the back and one for passivity. Passivity was called at with the score 7-6 (Beevers behind) with 1 min 34 secs remaining of the final period. They then went into the last minute; the ref forgot to assign priority until reminded after Beevers brought it back to 7-7: Beevers had priority but went behind several times from cards as well as hits. The final red card was awarded against Beevers with about 15 secs remaining and the score on 10-10. the Uzbek attacked and got in really close, Beevers went to try to get a prime remise in, the Uzbek seemed to bump into Beevers and fell over at which time the ref called halt and carded Beevers for covering.

Beevers very very nearly pulled it back in the last few seconds but just hit off target twice with attacks in the last 6 seconds.

In the L8 no mathces started with arm-judges but three out of four ended up getting them mostly to watch for dodgy ducking.

Insipiens
-12th October 2005, 15:39
Originally posted by doobarz
Taken from the news section of fencing2005.com 11.10.05 17:10
2003 World Champion Peter Joppich (GER, foil) drops out 10:15 against James Beevers (GBR) in round of last 32
„I did not really get into the bout and that also explains why I was eight points down in the beginning. The referee took some controversial decisions and my opponent was not penalized for blocking his body with his head. The fast flicking shoulder touches that I have been using successfully until now are no longer allowed under the new rules. I had great plans for these championships but that’s what fencing is like, things can also go wrong.”
See post in the other thread.

Joppich was doubtless annoyed because he did think Beevers ducked illegally a couple of times but frankly from the stands it just looked like he was out fenced - like most of the rest of the Germans.

And Beevers got some beautiful flick hits against Joppich on parry ripostes.

Gav
-12th October 2005, 15:41
Insipiens,

How do you know all of this?

davidc
-12th October 2005, 22:01
Well, Insipiens wrote "from the stands" when describing some of the action ... looks like he/she was there !
(lucky person !)

Gav
-12th October 2005, 22:19
Well I never claimed to be attentive ...

Insipiens
-13th October 2005, 12:40
As davidc points out, I was there.

Watched the individuals finals on all three days and assorted bits of sabre and epee.

Another controversial incident for you all to comment on: in the mens sabre final when the score was about 11-13 with Pozdniakov trailing he had Covaliu desperately trying to retreat; Covaliu had clearly lost his balance and couldn't go back fast enough in control; it looked like a certain hit to Poz either when Covaliu went over the back line or when Poz got a lunge in; but Covaliu held up his arm and the ref called halt - Covaliu then jestures that he has an injury to his leg but no doctor was called an he didn't take the ten minute break. No hit to Poz. a couple of hits later, almost the same thing happens although this time the Covaliu doesn't raise his arm but the ref calls halt before Poz can get a lunge in - Covaliu then falls over.

If he was really injured why didn't the doctor verify the injury? If he wasn't then he seemed to ask for a halt to avoid a certain hit. And why did the ref call halt the second time?

It looked like Pozdniakov was hard done by to me.