View Full Version : Box timing

lindsay watkiss
-20th April 2003, 22:08
What do you think of the FIE's plans to change the timing on the Elc box?:sun:

Barry Paul
-22nd April 2003, 17:24
What are the new regulatons they are proposing?

lindsay watkiss
-25th April 2003, 13:22
They are not at the stage of regulations as yet, but are talking about timing on the foil hit. The point will have to stay in contact for longer at the correct pressure. This will purify fencing and stop the flick. However the FIE can talk & talk, and Barry you are in a good position to tell me if this is possible?:transport

-25th April 2003, 18:22
I'm not sure that abolishing flicking will "purify" fencing.
I, at any rate, would hate to see an added dimension to foil fencing disappear.
As I've written before, I think that you can properly judge and educate fencers so that flicking will be the addition to the main and not turn to main to the addition.

Having said that, only today I attended a competition where I saw fencers who educate themselves to attack with a flick from stage 1, not even bothering to put on the resemblance of a compound attack before - that's what I call HUZPA!


-25th April 2003, 19:30
The timing proposals the FIE has looked at are increasing the debounce time for the point (i.e., how long it has to 'dwell' on the target) from the current minimum of 1 -5 ms to something in the range of 10-15 ms, and shortening the double-touch lockout window from the current 700-800 ms to about 350 ms.

I obtained some firmware for one of my scoring boxes which incorporated the proposed changes a couple of years ago (yes, that's how long these proposals have been floating around the FIE). They don't make a great deal of difference. The increase in the tip debounce time will cut down on the really extreme flicks (the sort where the guard is somewhere near the top of the mask and the hit arrives down on the lumbar spine), but has no significant effect on flicks to the shoulder, flank, or front.

The shortened lock-out window similarly has only a limited effect. I've found you really can't 'time-out' an opponent's flick attack with any more ease than with the current specs. A successful one-light stop hit with the new timing would in almost all cases have been a one-lighter with the old timing as well. The main effect of the shorter lock-out is to prevent late remises from registering, which wouldn't have an effect on the outcome of the bout anyway. As always, stop-hits need to be properly set up, instead of just doing a jut-and-lunge whenever you think you see an opening.

Given how long these proposals have been floating around, and that the FIE political process is mainly focussed on the issue of the Olympic Games format for the time being, I wouldn't advise anyone to hold their breath waiting for them.


-25th April 2003, 21:33
Top fencers like Camille can still flick with increased timing. David told me about some trials they ran.