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Another fencer
-7th March 2006, 22:06
Recently discovered that social membership has increased from 5 to 10 a year. Also found out that the promised voucher for one county or regional event has not materialised. Checked with BFA about whether beginners kept in coached classes should be social members - they said "not a requirement, but we recommend it" which is code for if someone gets injured in questionable circumstances, the insurers will kick up a fuss and not pay. (Questionable circumstances meaning a grey area like a bit of free fencing amongst beginners.)

Can I ask what other university clubs are doing? Is everyone signing their beginners up to social membership, or relying on university insurance? The expectation seems to be that we conform to the requirements of the national governing body.

Will also be starting a thread on the iniquity of this whole thing, probably in off piste. 5 to national association and 5 to BFA - can someone explain what it pays for and why social members should have to pay so much? Two years ago when social membership didnt exist, we paid club membership to cover fencing in club and also team events. Now the bill will be in the hundreds of pounds. I dont begrudge the 40 I pay as a competitive fencer nor do any of our squad, but this tax on student newbies cannot be a good thing.

gbm
-8th March 2006, 16:21
Aren't students generally insured through their AU?

Baldric
-8th March 2006, 16:49
Originally posted by Another fencer
Recently discovered that social membership has increased from 5 to 10 a year. Also found out that the promised voucher for one county or regional event has not materialised. Checked with BFA about whether beginners kept in coached classes should be social members - they said "not a requirement, but we recommend it" which is code for if someone gets injured in questionable circumstances, the insurers will kick up a fuss and not pay. (Questionable circumstances meaning a grey area like a bit of free fencing amongst beginners.)



I thought that any member of an affiliated club was insured by the BF policy?

IIRC someone at the BF AGM estimated that there were up to 40,000 active fencers in affiliated clubs, and yet there are only 9000 paid up BF members. The remainder, so long as they restrict their fencing to the affiliated club, are covered by the blanket policy.

PM me if you want the email address at Perkins Slade (BF's insurance broker) of the bloke who deals with it. I think BF might be trying to extract a few quid from you unnecessarily.

gbm
-9th March 2006, 07:28
http://www.britishfencing.com/INSURANCE04.html

Seems to suggest the club insurance is to protect the club officers, not the fencers...

Baldric
-9th March 2006, 08:50
Originally posted by gbm
http://www.britishfencing.com/INSURANCE04.html

Seems to suggest the club insurance is to protect the club officers, not the fencers...

You are right, it does.

I have emailed Perkins Slade to ask them. When I get an answer, I will post it.

silvercross
-9th March 2006, 10:26
Our uni club has its club fencers (i.e beginners) insured through the AU, since they must have an AU card in order to participate in an athletics club. While quite a few of the members do decide to get the BFA, only the squad members need it for BUSA matches. We also allow 'friends, faculty and staff' to be members ofthe club, and from what we've been told by the AU, they only need AU membership, since it covers them in activities in the sports centre related to the club.

At least I THINK that's how it goes...

gbm
-9th March 2006, 12:24
Our AU seems to have two levels of insurance - one for fencing in the club (1), and an extra top-up for being on the 'team' (3).

cesh_fencing
-9th March 2006, 12:28
Originally posted by Another fencer
Also found out that the promised voucher for one county or regional event has not materialised.

Have spoken to committee members for England Fencing and the question of how the 'one local event' system would work was a bit open. Counties will need to add something to application forms to state something like ' If using socail membership I confirm this will be the one and only event I will enter in this membership year'. There are not any vouchers and I do not think they were ever planned.

It is a strange situation as even if a particular county keeps a record, a fencer could fence in one event in one county and then fence at another counties event and the organisers would not know.

Feel principle of social membership including 1 local event is great, we have just have a beginner course just completed and pretty much all the adults are going to do the surrey novices in couple of weeks as they do not need to spend on a years licence (as social was part of course cost). Should help keep them longer term...

Another fencer
-9th March 2006, 12:35
Cesh

Did the EFA committee members say anything about insurance- surely this half-hearted "We're not sure" and no record keeping is not conducive to expecting any insurance coverage? The EFA website is really contradictory (No competitive fencing, followed by the lines about one event.) And I had an e-mail from the BFA confirming that the EFA did not intend to allow social members to fence at county or regional events.

Any light you can shed would be heartily appreciated.

cesh_fencing
-9th March 2006, 13:42
We just have to go from what is stated on England Fencing Site. I have not specifically spoken to anyone about the insurance side of things.

I feel that organisers of county/local events do need to add a cover for themselves on their entry forms. If someone attends two events and is so not insured, it will end up fencers liability rether than the organisers.

Saxon
-9th March 2006, 16:36
Not sure how much water that would hold.

Imagine having a line on your form which says "I certify I am a member of England Fencing and am therefore insured, and by this assertion, I don't need to show you my card". Would you accept this and allow them to fence? I hope not.

Imagine another line which goes "I have shown my card as proof I am a member of England Fencing, and I also certify that this is my One And Only Competition and I am therefore insured". What is the difference?


Unfortunately, I have been unable to find anything more than a hand-wavey description of the insurance terms on the England Site. It may be on there somewhere, but the site is such a dog's breakfast I can't find it.

Baldric
-23rd March 2006, 09:57
Originally posted by Baldric
You are right, it does.

I have emailed Perkins Slade to ask them. When I get an answer, I will post it.

OK - now have an answer from Perkins Slade.

BF insurance only covers the affiliated clubs and their officials. According to PS, members of affiliated clubs who are not members of BF in their own right don't get any benefit from the BF insurance.

Regards

Baldric.

cesh_fencing
-23rd March 2006, 10:47
Does EF have a seperate policy?

Baldric
-23rd March 2006, 10:51
Originally posted by cesh_fencing
Does EF have a seperate policy?

No. BF administers membership and insurance on behalf of the home countries.

Tech
-4th May 2006, 05:19
To try and clear up a few issues:

1) Club membership has NEVER insured individual fencers. It has always been designed to insure clubs, in particular club officers against claims for negligance from anyone in connection with fencing activitites. So, if in the club someone was injured and sued the club officers for negligence (equipment lying around, fire door blocked, etc., etc.) the officers would be covered by insurance. They would only have cover for fencing activities, so if the club organised a Bar-b-Q and someone was injured the officers would not be covered by BFA insurance.

2) As agreed at the BFA Board, Social members are meant to receive membership cards which can then be produced at events and suitably endorsed. The EF website reflects this agreement. But while HQ implements this for Welsh members, they currently claim they do not have time to do the same for England Members. I will ask them nicely again!

3) All insurance matters are handled by the BFA

Danger Mouse
-4th May 2006, 11:22
[QUOTE=Tech]To try and clear up a few issues:

2) As agreed at the BFA Board, Social members are meant to receive membership cards which can then be produced at events and suitably endorsed. The EF website reflects this agreement. But while HQ implements this for Welsh members, they currently claim they do not have time to do the same for England Members. I will ask them nicely again.


It would seem a little unfair, that there are one set of rules for one and not the other. At region and county levels this will make things very difficult. You would expect that everything would be the same for everyone!!!

If new fencers in clubs want to start out with this membership, it is only right and proper that they have a means of proving it. And have the opportunity to fence in the one event that this membership allows.