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gbm
-8th April 2006, 15:04
http://www.fencingchannel.net/feature/2006fie/index.htm

"In a secret vote, Men's Team Foil was selected for exclusion from the 2008 Olympics. Women's Team Epee is also excluded."

Johnbone
-8th April 2006, 16:13
'...and Men's Team Epee will be fenced at the 2008 Olympics' :mexwave:

Gav
-8th April 2006, 18:29
Ahhh yes,

"In a secret vote ..."

That gives people a lot of confidence in the process.

Baldric
-8th April 2006, 19:36
Originally posted by Gav
Ahhh yes,

"In a secret vote ..."

That gives people a lot of confidence in the process.

Forgive my naivety, but I thought that secret votes were one of the cornerstones of democracy?

Foilling Around
-8th April 2006, 21:00
I agree with Baldric. I presume that the point is that it was not a show of hands. It does not mean that the fact that there was a vote was a secret, just that the way people voted was a secret.

London gained the Olympics on a secret vote. Do you think we should object Gav?

Foilling Around
-9th April 2006, 18:30
At the end of the day this is far too late to be making these decisions. It should have been made at the latest at the beginning of the Olympic cycle. The only excuse can be any negociating with the IOC which may have changed fencings representations.

Obviously no idea which way our delegation or representatives voted, but losing MF teams at this point does not seem to be good for our 2008 prospects.

If MF and WS are our, at least unofficial target weapons it makes achievement of success that much harder.

IF MF and WE are missing from 2008 and WF and WS missed out in 2004. Does that mean that MS and ME will automatically miss out on the team events in 2012?

If so then that could influence the direction of the extra money available to the IC.

Boo Boo
-9th April 2006, 18:40
Originally posted by Foilling Around
IF MF and WE are missing from 2008 and WF and WS missed out in 2004. Does that mean that MS and ME will automatically miss out on the team events in 2012?

Don't think so - think that the FIE has agreed that, from 2008 onwards, one men's team event and one women's team event will be ommitted from each Games.

There was women's team epee in 2004, Women's team foil and women's team epee in 2000. In 2008, there will be women's team foil and women's team sabre. So, logically, 2012 will be women's team epee and women's team sabre. So, in 2012, women's team foil and either men's team epee or sabre will be out.


Originally posted by Foilling Around
If so then that could influence the direction of the extra money available to the IC.

My guess is that is will be used to confirm the direction that the IC is already spending the money (i.e. Men's Foil and Women's Sabre) - since both team events will be in the 2012 Olympics AND 2012 is there aim (and not really 2008).

Boo

gbm
-9th April 2006, 19:08
There's an interview on fencingchannel.tv in which Rene Roch explains the system. The rules are:

a) one mens team and one women's team will be dropped.
b) no weapon will be dropped twice in a row
c) all weapons will have at least one team event

So Mens Foil and Women's Epee are guaranteed to be in the 2012 Olympics, along with at least one of the sabre events. Nothing else is certain (and even that is subject to later change by Roch's minions, I expect...)

In some ways it is good - MF is guaranteed to be in 2012, and we will get either MS (O'Connell?) or WS (or both). Given how popular MS was over MF this time round (45-20?), I'd guess that ME would be eliminated...
Unless of course we had tactical voting from countries to eliminate weapons they were developing and really wanted to see in the 2012 Olympics...

PM1
-9th April 2006, 20:24
Originally posted by gbm
Given how popular MS was over MF this time round (45-20?), I'd guess that ME would be eliminated...
Unless of course we had tactical voting from countries to eliminate weapons they were developing and really wanted to see in the 2012 Olympics...

Don't bank on ME being eliminated...tactical voting has been used before, I believe, and the number of countries with large numbers of ME is not small or uninfluential, I understand....

Ho hum.....

gbm
-9th April 2006, 20:54
If ME wasn't eliminated, then MS would be, and WS wouldn't be, and WF would be...

Alternatively if ME is eliminated, then MS wouldn't be, and either WS or WF would be eliminated. :transport

Foilling Around
-9th April 2006, 22:35
Either way round it look like Women's Foil is screwed for 2012. However, realistically FAJs generation will be at their peak in 2016 rather than 2012.

Big shame about the blip in Korea overnight, but we will continue to see progress from the girls in the future.

Baldric
-9th April 2006, 22:57
On a more constructive note, does anyone know what lobbying is being done to have 12 medals for fencing in 2012, and is there anything that we can do (as citizens of the host nation) to support it?

Foilling Around
-9th April 2006, 23:30
Sorry Baldric, not feeling overly constructive right now!

This might seem very premature, but has anyone seen any dates for the Cadet/Junior Worlds in Turkey next year?

I have been trawling and come up with nothing.

Gangsta G
-10th April 2006, 01:06
A shame for GB that MF will miss out - our strongest team weapon along with WS.

Coupe du Nord
-10th April 2006, 16:58
Cadet Junior Worlds in Turkey next year. Dates are 08/04/07 to 16/04/07. To be confirmed at congress.

Foilling Around
-10th April 2006, 17:24
Originally posted by Coupe du Nord
Cadet Junior Worlds in Turkey next year. Dates are 08/04/07 to 16/04/07. To be confirmed at congress.

Thanx, planning starts here!

Keith.A.Smith
-13th April 2006, 08:29
Dear All,

The vote is currently very good for us. We wanted MFT inLondon and appear to have got it. With the current team qualification system with maximun 5 European teams at a weapon at the Olympics qualifyig it would have been very difficult for Beijing but as the host you hve 8 places guaranteed and we can enter 2 teams as of right or alocate our 8 places across the 6 individual weapons.

Regarding the women's weapons clearly WE team will be in for London and there will be another vote concerning foil or sabre.

The FIE and other nations are campaigning for 12 medals as are we via the BOA etc.

It is 6 years to London and all our new funding is predicated on London 2012. Clearly we are not forsaking any weapon but we have to target resources at senior success.

Best wishes,

Keith

Keith.A.Smith
-13th April 2006, 08:29
Dear All,

The vote is currently very good for us. We wanted MFT inLondon and appear to have got it. With the current team qualification system with maximun 5 European teams at a weapon at the Olympics qualifyig it would have been very difficult for Beijing but as the host you hve 8 places guaranteed and we can enter 2 teams as of right or alocate our 8 places across the 6 individual weapons.

Regarding the women's weapons clearly WE team will be in for London and there will be another vote concerning foil or sabre.

The FIE and other nations are campaigning for 12 medals as are we via the BOA etc.

It is 6 years to London and all our new funding is predicated on London 2012. Clearly we are not forsaking any weapon but we have to target resources at senior success.

Best wishes,

Keith

tigger
-13th April 2006, 13:11
Does this mean that some of the funding given to MF team events will be diverted to other sources until after 2008?

As I understand it MFT events are currently fully-funded regardless of who is in the team (ie even fencers not funded as individuals are fully-funded if picked for team events)

Keith.A.Smith
-13th April 2006, 23:19
Dear All,

Participation at World Championships by team is also now limited by world rankings by the FIE.

keith

madfencer
-26th April 2006, 08:02
That's awful I never realised that they got rid of events before the Olympics! :( :( I pity the Mens Foilists that may have got their hopes up and the Womens Epeeists!

Gav
-27th April 2006, 08:30
I agree with Baldric. I presume that the point is that it was not a show of hands. It does not mean that the fact that there was a vote was a secret, just that the way people voted was a secret.

London gained the Olympics on a secret vote. Do you think we should object Gav?
Without wishing to reopen a can of worms; it has been suggested that the Olympics is of dubious value - ouside of the increase in funding that it will attract for fencing in the run-up [obviously].

Gav
-27th April 2006, 08:31
Forgive my naivety, but I thought that secret votes were one of the cornerstones of democracy?

Sorry I misread it. I read it as vote-in-secret i.e. behind closed doors.

In any case don't you mean secret ballot - or is that just semantics?

JohnL
-1st May 2006, 17:35
Why don't we just drop womens eppe and sabre on a permanent basis.

They make curling look exciting.

JohnL

Foilling Around
-1st May 2006, 17:59
Given the MF team result this weekend, it is even more of a pity that MF teams are dropped for Beijing.

Keith.A.Smith
-2nd May 2006, 20:03
Dear All,

Think how much better our MFT will be by 2012 and indeed I hope all our teams and fencers by then.

Keith

Gangsta G
-3rd May 2006, 01:32
Why don't we just drop womens eppe and sabre on a permanent basis.

They make curling look exciting.

JohnL Considering how strong we are at WS, I think that wouild be a very bad idea!!!

Australian
-3rd May 2006, 07:27
That's awful I never realised that they got rid of events before the Olympics! :( :( I pity the Mens Foilists that may have got their hopes up and the Womens Epeeists!


they only drop the team event. There is still individual competition for these two weapons.

NomDePlume
-5th May 2006, 10:02
That's awful I never realised that they got rid of events before the Olympics! :( :( I pity the Mens Foilists that may have got their hopes up and the Womens Epeeists!

Good grief.

Can't you read? Don't you follow what anyone is saying? Pay attention there will be a test later.

Foilling Around
-5th May 2006, 10:50
Good grief.

Can't you read? Don't you follow what anyone is saying? Pay attention there will be a test later.

Please don't get at madfencer, yes she is rather scatty, but in a nice way and her contributions and her enthusiasm can often brighten up a dull day.

Accept people for the good things about them and don't rub their failings in their faces.

Your location says "why should I tell you" - because it is polite and it helps others get a line on your perspective on the world of fencing.

Winwaloe
-26th May 2006, 12:50
I'm with NomDePlume because he or she is funny and I rather like the cavalier attitude. We need more cavaliers on this Forum!