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James
-4th September 2003, 21:48
THEY KICK ASS
had a play with one tonight
and it just changes everything
it was an epee one
and i had fun
i know they've been mentioned before but
i really didnt realise quite how great they were
definately on my "to-buy list"

James

aao
-5th September 2003, 08:50
errrr right, are you sure its a 'fencing' 'coaching' aid your describing?????;)

James
-5th September 2003, 10:10
yip
at least thats what its sold as on the leon paul site
under the new products section there is
"Epee Electronic Coaching aid or tester"
and they're so funky

Rdb811
-5th September 2003, 11:46
Is this a bleeper box - one of mine got wet (it was bucketing down) and went off - at first I thought it was some kind of warning noise at RAF Uxbridge - but the sound followed up down the Metropolitan line - eventually I realised it was coming from the bag and had to open the bag, fish for the box and then dismantle - providing an afternoon's entertainment for passer-by while teh train got delayed.

Marcos
-5th September 2003, 13:38
Originally posted by aao
errrr right, are you sure its a 'fencing' 'coaching' aid your describing?????;)

seriously - sounds like a toy an ex girlfriend of mine had...she also had great fun with it when it got wet

;)

hokers
-5th September 2003, 14:44
:eyerise: :eyerise: :eyerise:

Got to love that smilie. Bet Innuendo girl joins the thread..

Barry Paul
-5th September 2003, 16:29
Originally Z.W. suggested the foil hit tester was great for use in some foil lessons and I saw these as being coaching aids. When we came to place these in the price list with a reference number we realised that they more logically fitted into recording Apparatus . So the foil one is CF20 epee CE20 Barry Paul

sparkymark567
-6th September 2003, 19:11
For epee:

Just get a 9 volt buzzer, a 9 volt battery, 3 * 4mm patch lead sockets. bung it in a box. Less than £3.50 total from maplins. Takes about 30 mins to make.

No timer for the buzzer is required. Sounds only while the tip is depressed so you can here every hit land!

and it does work !, a club mate of mine made one and my coach really likes it; "better than the ones you can buy" he said.

sparkymark567
-6th September 2003, 19:17
and a PP3 battery connector of course!

b.t.w hear every hit land! not "here every hit land"

Urban Spaceman
-9th September 2003, 07:18
I've got an LP foil one and it's great.



Originally posted by sparkymark567

No timer for the buzzer is required.

Is there not a rule for the minimum amount of time the tip is depressed for a valid hit in epee ?
I believe there is in foil although i'm not sure what this minimum time is.

sparkymark567
-9th September 2003, 11:08
That's right no timer for the buzzer is required, because it's just a training aid!

Buzzer only stays on while the tip is depressed, so if it's too short you probably won't hear anything. Buzzer is 450Hz, therfore one cycle = 2 milllisecs. less than 2 millisecs and I doubt you will hear anything.

But trust me, no need for the buzzer to stay on longer than the tip is depressed. You will be able to hear it. That's what I meant when I said you don't need a timer.

Anyway, since it's a training aid, like the LP training aids you hardly need an FIE spec.

It's better than the ones you can buy (which have a timer) as with this one when you make two more hits with little time seperating them, you will actually hear 2 beeps instead of one prolonged beep.

If you don't beleive me, just try it. It's cheap, it's simple to make and you won't be disappointed.

Barry Paul
-9th September 2003, 12:01
Sparky is it true your night time job is presenting on Blue Peter? Next you will be showing us how to make a wireless fencing system using an old radio and mobile phone.

You could be right in my day when we hit the oponents stayed hit, watching some of the top fencers the flick remises are lighteningly fast.

Barry

sparkymark567
-9th September 2003, 12:24
1.Take a sticky label
2.Make your own logo
3.Colour it in with a felt tip

and there you have it: your very own product.
and now your ready to start to your own company.

sparkymark567
-9th September 2003, 12:37
oh and if you ask Cyberdermis (reference to another thread, off piste) by the sound of things he'll probably show you how to make a wireless system with a mobile phone and a radio.

Urban Spaceman
-10th September 2003, 08:02
Originally posted by sparkymark567

If you don't beleive me, just try it. It's cheap, it's simple to make and you won't be disappointed.

It sounds good so I'm going to have a go. I'm no electrical engineer though and could do with running the list of parts I found on maplin's website by you. Could you please PM me or email me so I contact you directly about it so we don't clog the board with stuff about wires and such.
ta,

neochrome
-10th September 2003, 10:13
And if you could send me the details too :)

Cheers

P.

tigger
-10th September 2003, 10:29
The incredible lengths foilists and epeeists will go to in order to save a fiver...you'll make a special trip to a shop, spend time selecting the parts, go home, spend time putting them together wrongly, taking them apart and putting them together approximately right, and end up with something shoddy that probably lasts 2 weeks. Have you guys ever considered what it might be like to have a life??? FOR GOD'S SAKE BUY A TRAINING AID WITH REAL MONEY AND GO AND TALK TO A WOMAN, OR GET DRUNK, OR TAKE UP SABRE :grin:

neochrome
-10th September 2003, 11:07
Or alternativly save a fiver and spend that on going out ?

I have a great life thanks for asking, my fiancee was a woman the last time I checked - I get drunk most weekends.

Special trip to the shop I walk past and I guess the electrical engineering I did will make me put it together wrong ?

So spending money in a specialist fencing shop gives me a life how ? And its so much better to give money to gain that all important brand product.

Lonely in sabre fencing talk ? Feel you should join in ? You should try getting a life .. hehehehe ;)

So for GODS SAKE DONT PRESUME ANYTHING. (Just for the effect of capital letters - you know how good that looks)

Cheers :grin:

Tetchy about being told to get a life by somebody who does not know me.

Urban Spaceman
-10th September 2003, 11:08
Originally posted by tigger
FOR GOD'S SAKE BUY A TRAINING AID WITH REAL MONEY
what's money ? I hear they have that stuff down south somewhere.


Originally posted by tigger
AND GO AND TALK TO A WOMAN,
dear me no, last time I did that, I got married.


Originally posted by tigger
OR GET DRUNK,
Now you're talking...


Originally posted by tigger
OR TAKE UP SABRE :grin:
erm. maybe eventually.

sparkymark567
-10th September 2003, 11:22
Sure, I'll have a look on maplins online and I'lll foward a list of parts.

Time to spare at last, exams fiinished so your in luck!

Not difficult to build, no need for a diagram.

pTeppic
-10th September 2003, 12:33
Next week boys and girls we will show you how to make your own FIE jacket and breeches out of a pair of old socks and lots of sticky back plastic.

I can mock - I'm an computer scientist. I have NO life.

Kian

sparkymark567
-10th September 2003, 15:25
O.K, I wasn't going to clog the board, but Urban Spaceman: I can't send you an email. So here is a copy of it. That way it's there for anyone else.

Epee training aid:

FL39N Buzzer 6V 1.49
N32AP 4mm Socket Black 0.49
HF28F PP3 Clip 0.29
ND65V Alkaline Battery PP3 2.99
KC91Y T2 Box 1.39

Qty: 1 of each, with the exception of the 4mm socket where the qty is 3.

Above is the Maplins part list.

The Battery is just a normal 9 volt, so it might be cheaper elsewhere.
The T2 box, is not the ideal size but itís the best I could find on Maplins. You could probably get a smaller one from RS, along with all the other stuff. However, I find that when you get the box: it always seems smaller than what you expected!
There is no belt clip on the box, so it does need to go in a pocket (thatís what my club mate does) or choose a different box with a belt clip.

Iím sure youíll have no problems building it. You will need an 8mm drill bit for the holes, which are best placed in the side. Apart from that itís pretty obvious. There is only two wires that need joining, best done with a soldering iron.

Good luck

Mark

p.s. Please reply to the post on the forum and tell us whether itís any good. Youíll be the second / third person to try it!

sparkymark567
-10th September 2003, 15:48
And.. If anyone really, really, wants one with a timer and to worry all about how long the tip is depressed and all that. Maybe I could post some circuit diagrams. But you will need to be a dab hand with the soldering iron!

Could even do one for foil too. But just to be fair, will have to get the O.K from Barry. (It would be my own design as I've never seen inside an LP one).

Barry if you give me the go the go ahead, please don't blame me if they end up similar to the LP ones as I suspect anyone who designed one would probably go for the most obvious circuit.

Actually, a thought: I could probably put the diagrams on my own website and just post a link instead.

Have I gone to far now??

And next week we really will be showing you how to make a wireless fencing system using a radio and a mobile phone

sparkymark567
-11th September 2003, 23:39
I've been thinking about the training aid which I mentioned in my last post. I've decided not to use the most obvious circuit as I've since thought of a better way.

I'm cosidering putting together a kit, which I could then sell on ebay.
Here are the basic design features; please provide my with some feedback so I can decide whether anyone will actually be interested.

The training aid will be for either foil or epee. The threshold resistance will be meet FIE spec for a scoring apparatus. The time required for the depressed tip will also meet FIE spec for scoring apparatus. There will be timer, such that the buzzer will stay on for a while after the tip has been released. I'm thinking about 0.3 to 0.5 seconds.

The kit will cost about £12. Anyone interested? or would I be wasting my time.

pTeppic
-12th September 2003, 09:18
I built something very similar myself not so long ago (well two years, when I first started messing around with electric foil).

My coach at the time really liked it, but I never got around to finalising the design. It was a little bulky, but it also doubled as a test box for spotting breaks in foil wires.

Kian

sparkymark567
-17th September 2003, 17:39
As you can imagine, I've been overwhelmed by people who want to buy my training aid kit!!! The emails just keep rolling in! not!

galaxy7
-4th October 2003, 21:46
I have just made one as suggested, the part from Maplins were only a couple of pound. It seems to work fine, perhaps I will add a bulb to the mark 2 that I intend to make for my son. Thanks for the idea, saved a bit of money, perhaps I can now afford some more kit !

For a foil one, I think you need a relay as the circuit is always closed, only a hit opens it. Anybody made one ?

sparkymark567
-7th October 2003, 00:56
Interesting idea with the relay; but not really a suitable option as the battery would go flat really quickly.

The epee version is very simple, but in foil the circuit would be much harder to make.

SoulTripper
-11th November 2003, 15:23
I'm resurrecting this thread because my club is thinking of buying some CF20 aids from LP (the electric buzzer that straps to your arm for either foil or epee).

I was wondering what experience people have of this item? they seem like a very good alternative to the £200+ boxes for the new improving fencer and especially for a large club where space and pistes are somewhat overrun by epeeists.

What's there reliability, life-span (are they durable enough for the 5K plus hits they are meant to last). Are the batteries replaceable and cheap etc.

Any comments would be greatly appreciated and I will pass them on to my club.

Regards

S

Robert
-11th November 2003, 20:25
Originally posted by SoulTripper
I was wondering what experience people have of this item? they seem like a very good alternative to the £200+ boxes for the new improving fencer and especially for a large club where space and pistes are somewhat overrun by epeeists.

What's there reliability, life-span (are they durable enough for the 5K plus hits they are meant to last). Are the batteries replaceable and cheap etc.



Would advise against it in the case of foil. They are not really adequate as an alternative to boxes (as they do not distinguish off and on target), you might as well do some steam fencing if you are short of boxes. In epee they do not indicate timing so they can't distinguish whose hit or if it was simultaneous.

I own one and my coach owns one. He never uses it. I use it for practising the dogs balls (see epee thread on point control) but I only just discovered that, and with another fencer who wants to practise his flick hits.

Possibly a little irritating is that within a year or two there are likely to be wireless kits on the market that cost a tenth of the amount boxes do.

But for the moment I think you are stuck with shelling out on boxes.

Robert

James
-11th November 2003, 21:18
i'd have to disagree. for epee at least the little plug in buzzers are great an analternative to boxes. however i can't comment on durability. and i can see the disadvantages of using them for foil.

James

Rdb811
-11th November 2003, 23:22
Originally posted by Robert
In epee they do not indicate timing so they can't distinguish whose hit or if it was simultaneous.


You can tell (there are slight difference between the buzzers)- they are more important for telling if you are landing - useful for warming up for a comp. (In epee)

Jenrick
-12th November 2003, 06:35
Been using a Foil forfor practicelately as well as an eppee one in club. It is good for prcaticing. The ones we use are Favaro. Be even better if a off target hit in foil could be distinquished. Any one know of any suitable for Sabre?
:swordpen:

SoulTripper
-12th November 2003, 08:28
Well, sine the epeeist dominate the pistes in the main, I think we would be looking to use it for Foil. I think we would use it just to let the improving fencers who don't own much electric kit to get a feel of when a hit is a hit and not flat.

Thanks for the advice. I will pass it on.

all the best

S