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Jenrick
-23rd April 2003, 08:35
What do you think are the best quality weapons and the worst?
:confused:

Hudson
-23rd April 2003, 08:43
Thats's hard to say. I have All-Star, Uhllman and leon paul waepons all slightly diffrent in properties but all just a s good as each other.

Gav
-23rd April 2003, 08:52
I've started to dislike Allstar blades. They're like rubber and once they take a bad bend they keep it - they are a pain in a***. BF's on the other hand are good. Before anyone starts I know that most Allstars are rebadged BF's but I hear that they make their own too. These last ones are the ones I am referring to. I like LP's V blades as they don't rust as much and are nice and springy.

Goblin
-23rd April 2003, 09:02
I can only talk about sabre blades as thats all I use these days. The PBT sabre blades are the best I have found. Good balance, light weight, durable and cheap.
I have found the Allstar gold sabre blades to be nicley weighted and balanced but they bend all over the shop - after parries and hits they constantly need to be corrected during the course of a fight - but they do have a nice balance.
I have found LP sabre blades to be badly balanced and so have never used them. Saying that a LP stand recently had some american imports for sale - they were nicley weighted and balanced (if twice the cost of PBT ones) so may be things will change soon.

wingnutLP
-23rd April 2003, 10:41
Neither Uhlman nor Allstar make any blades as they have no forge. All the blades they sell are all either branded BF blades (which are pretty good on the whole) or increacingly they are buying in Eastern European and Russian blades (arguably not so good).

bydande
-23rd April 2003, 11:11
Can we add Triplette blades (from the Blaise Freres forge) and Dinamo blades to the poll as these blades are now readily available in the UK.

And by the by, I used to think the Uhlmann/AllStar blades were OK but I recently bought a size 3 one for my daughter and within a short period of time it was swan-necked and bending like treacle. She now has a Dinamo blade which so far is doing OK.

bydande

Gold
-23rd April 2003, 11:25
I have to say that i have tried many types of blade but my favourite has to be Paul France. They just seem to work for me. I dont think you can say what the best blade is its up to your own personal preference;)

jasb
-23rd April 2003, 11:55
The most popular blades bought by the senior fencers in our area has to be Leon Paul's F10bgt (Budget Maraging) at around 50 these blades last and last. They snap 9/10 a third from the tip (safe!) and produce a gentle curve for most of its life to go round all those corners.

bydande
-23rd April 2003, 12:50
I am currently using a Triplette (BF) gold maraging blade (bought in the UK from gofence.com) and so far I am very happy with it. Triplette claim that the BF gold blades last quite a bit longer than the standard maraging blades so I am hoping that it wil be quite a while before I can make any comments on how it breaks.

Boo Boo
-23rd April 2003, 13:05
I use BF blades (white, rectangular) and have been doing so for the past couple of years.

Previously I used LP full maraging blades for years. Tried LP budget maraging blades for a few months briefly, but found that they weren't solid enough for me when I parry. I also tried LP flickmaster blades for a little while: they were nice, but very expensive (I seem to remember).

I find BF blades flicky, yet solid when I parry, well balanced and have a long life.

Boo

wingnutLP
-23rd April 2003, 13:08
I have added Dynamo to the poll as they are a manufacturer in their own right but not triplette as they are really just BF.

The LP budget blade are probably the flickiest and certainly the lightest on the market so loads of people like them. However, they certainly aren't to everyones taste.

wingnutLP
-23rd April 2003, 13:17
Boo Boo have you tried the Golubitsky-Pro? This is a new LP blade with a reinforced Forte so it has the bend closer to the tip. Sounds like it might be up your street?

Boo Boo
-23rd April 2003, 13:54
Wingnut

No I haven't tried it: it sounds tempting, but no-one around here (out in the sticks...) uses it. Can you name some foilists who use them?

Changing blades is a bit of a hassle: my husband and I have about 12 BF blades between us (half of which tend to be being rewired at any point in time). The thought of changing them over would be a bit of a nightmare... :confused: (it tends to suit us if we both use the same type and set of blades - can use each other's if need be)

Still, will bear the Golubitsky-Pro in mind and will try it if I get the opportunity (am sure I will like it and an expensive blade changing frenzy will start.... :grin: ).

Boo

bydande
-23rd April 2003, 14:01
wingnut
Based on the logic of your reply about Triplette blades - shouldnt Allstar and Uhlmann be removed from the poll if all they do is rebadge blades from forges like SM and BF in the Ukraine and France? And in their place should be the actual forges themselves.

Cyranox11
-23rd April 2003, 14:05
For cost-quality-feel-durability I prefer Lammet maraging. Although I will admit that I haven't had much experience with other brands of maraging blades...

Jambo
-23rd April 2003, 14:26
Stupid question for ya'll, what does maraging actually mean? I have one or two but I've never known what it means.

Cyranox11
-23rd April 2003, 14:42
A metallurgist will probably give you a better answer, but basically as far as I am aware maraging steel is a steel that is rust resistant and that has been artificially aged through a heat treating process.
The problem with steel is that the stronger it is, the more brittle it is. thus a good strong steel will break easily when flexed! Not ideal for a fencing weapon.
BUT as steel ages, it gets more flexible, whilst retaining much of its strength (assuming it doesnot rust). Thus by artificially ageing the steel, you keep it nice and strong but increase its flexibility. The compounds used are also more rust resistant than normal steel blades.
Also, I am told, maraging blades are more likely to break cleanly thus making a broken maraging blade safer than other blades as they are less likely to leave a dangerously sharp stump!

kingkenny
-23rd April 2003, 15:06
I voted for lp no suprise but in truth we all know the best blade in the world was " The sword of omens"

"Thunder
Thunder
Thunder cats Ho."

Classic.

http://www.80schildren.com/television/thundercats.htm

haggis
-23rd April 2003, 15:11
BF blades for me please. You'll get the odd duff one but generally they'd be my choice. Have expressed an opinion about a certain company's epee blades elsewhere on this board so won't bother to repeat it here (but they are nasty:tongue: )

Hudson
-23rd April 2003, 16:24
The sword of Omens was good but pails in conparisum to He-Man
"By the power of Greyskull
I have the Power"

kingkenny
-23rd April 2003, 20:06
If you are going to remove Allstar and Uhlmann you better remove PBT because they don't make blades either. They buy from Eastern Forges, who still hand forge blades.

jamesthornton
-23rd April 2003, 20:09
theres basicaly only leon paul bf and sm. leon pauls are good strong and bend at the right place. bf are to stif and tend to fail weopon control tests because of it and sm blades break realy quickly

randomsabreur
-23rd April 2003, 20:37
Voted allstar on poll as that is for my main weapon, sabre. There is very little difference in sabre blades, most go at the tang - russian forges I guess but I don't like the shape of paul blades. As for foil, budget maraging wins hands down!

doobarz
-23rd April 2003, 21:29
Perhaps one of the admin guys could restart this with seperate sections for each weapon, as that seems to be a big deciding point? And perhaps someone in 'the business' could tell us which forge is producing what, so we can have a proper vote?

bydande
-24th April 2003, 06:27
jamesthornton,
You say
"bf are to stif and tend to fail weopon control tests because of it"

Can you elaborate on this statement? Which test do they fail?

wingnutLP
-24th April 2003, 07:12
Originally posted by bydande
wingnut
Based on the logic of your reply about Triplette blades - shouldnt Allstar and Uhlmann be removed from the poll if all they do is rebadge blades from forges like SM and BF in the Ukraine and France? And in their place should be the actual forges themselves.

Hmmm this is true the problem is that most people don't know what forge their blade is from...

I will add Triplette and Lammet and then I guess that the vote is about which manufacturer/reseller supplies the best blades in general rather than about specific blades or forges.
When I have time to do my research properly I will try to start a poll in each weapon with each manufacturer/reseller and where they get there blades (the problem is with the vaccume left by France Lames it is now increacingly hard to trace forges and many of the blades out there aren't even badged)

Gold
-24th April 2003, 13:37
Thundercats ould kick he-mans ass sword of omens ruled can anyone here remember the movie i lent mine to john willis and it has since vanished;)

Aoife
-28th April 2003, 20:57
Wow! I remember Thudercats! Vaguely, very vaguely, but there is a spark of memory there! (I drew a blank until I saw Wiley Kit and Wiley Kat).


Neither Uhlman nor Allstar make any blades as they have no forge. All the blades they sell are all either branded BF blades (which are pretty good on the whole) or increacingly they are buying in Eastern European and Russian blades (arguably not so good).

So my Ulhmann blade is what? It has a little logo thingy on the side of the blade just above the guard. Sort of looks semi-circular, but it's rather worn.

neevel
-29th April 2003, 18:03
Originally posted by bydande
jamesthornton,
You say
"bf are to stif and tend to fail weopon control tests because of it"

Can you elaborate on this statement? Which test do they fail?

The flexibility test-- you clamp the blade 70 cm from the point, hang a 200 g weight 3 cm from the point, and measure how much the point flexes from its unweighted position. For epees, the flexion needs to be at least 4.5 cm and no greater than 7.0 cm.
When I was armoring for the US team at Jr./Cadet Worlds in Antalya a year ago, there were a few BF white blades that were slightly too stiff when I did the pre-submittal testing. There are a fair number of fencers and coaches who like their blades to be right at the minimum limit for stiffness-- since you get a certain degree of manufacturing variance, if you try to design a blade to be at that limit, you'll get some that go beyond it.

As a practical matter, you're never going to see a flex test done at any competition except a World Championships or Olympic Games, so unless you're sufficiently high up on your national points list that you're in the running for a team slot, it's not a major concern.

-Dave

Hudson
-29th April 2003, 19:00
Never had and problem with any blade. If i had to go for one i'd go for a Leon Paul blade just as i've had/ got more weapons from them than amy other dealer.

Barry Paul
-3rd May 2003, 22:19
It is not a major concern until some beginner on steroids hits you with one.

bydande
-3rd May 2003, 22:24
Neevel,
Thanks for your response.
Based on your experience do more blades tend to fail for being too stiff or for not being stiff enough?

Barry Paul
-4th May 2003, 11:36
The only time they are tested is at World Championships. Then they fail for being too stiff. The SEMI issued a warning at a recent WC because too many blades were not regulation. You can of course buy epee blades with there flexibility marked on them(moderator is this remark OK don't want to advertise?)

I would like to see a random check at opens and Nationals to see if there is a major problem. My remark about a beginner on steroids was very serious, five weeks ago while fencing I was hit on the top of the sword arm and had the worst brusing injury of my whole fencing caree. My whole top arm was stiff and black for two weeks. I tried bending the blade and the owner thought I was mad when I commented the blade was illegal, It cant be: it's ?????, supplied by a ???? firm. Nothing changes!!!

pinkelephant
-4th May 2003, 15:32
I'm afraid the intensity of bruising seems to be a function of age! I've never bruised particularly badly, but I'm finding they take longer to go the older I get. I have to agree with you about beginners though - I got a nasty one on my back leg from one the other day ( yes, I know he shouldn't have been able to hit it - incompetence also seems to be a function of age). It causes endless fun when visiting the quack ("now, are you sure there's nothing you want to tell me - is everything all right at home?").

I know someone who keeps a thirty year old blade of the stiff variety (not LP, you'll be pleased to know) just for fencing someone who likes to try to rearrange his rib cage.:swordpen:

Hudson
-4th May 2003, 16:20
You can do alot of damage with a nice legal soft blade as well.
Fenced one guy at an epee comp, both going forward and i hit him quite hard in the chest. Neither of us thought much of it. Saw him a few comps later and it turned out he'd gone to the hospital a few days later as his chest still hurt, had a nice fractured rib. SORRY.

Barry Paul
-4th May 2003, 22:41
Sorry to disagree nothing to do with age, I was hit by a high speed pocker. something should be done.

hamster
-4th May 2003, 23:59
In the army we used to have a saying:
"If you cant take a joke you shouldnt have joined"

so I think fencing should have a similar saying along the lines of:
"If you cant take a hit then dont fence".

Fencing is a contact sport - so stop moaning.

Hudson
-5th May 2003, 14:51
Hamster i take it you fenced for the army? Do you still?

hamster
-5th May 2003, 16:43
Hudson,
I fenced little bit before I joined the army (infantry regiment). I didnt fence whilst I was in the army but I did win some boxing medals instead.

Since leaving the army I have just started to fence again. I am older, slower and learning a new weapon (Epee) so I did start with a few evenings where I took a lot of hits. And they motivated me to get better and not get hit, not to moan about my opponent or his weapon.

Barry Paul
-5th May 2003, 18:34
I can take a hit with the best, however it's not me so much as the young beginner, who could be put off for life by some ex army boxer hitting him/her with a poker. We have rules about flexibility they should be inforced.
This in particular is important for size three or smaller blades., they should not be shortened size blades but designed in their own right.
Not so long ago one of the suppliers unable to supply size three blades cut down size 5 and stuck the plastic buttons on with epoxy glue, both too stiff and dangerous, but thats a different story.

hamster
-5th May 2003, 18:56
1. Some boxers can actually make very good fencers because they are skilled in movement, keeping distance, co-ordination and timing. Attributes which can also make them good fencers. However, please not that this does not apply to any boxer above light heavyweight i.e. the likes of Frank Bruno & Tyson.

2. I cede the point on protecting childen though. What (if any) are the regulations about childrens weapons?

Hudson
-5th May 2003, 19:00
At a RAF comp a few year ago a boxer tried his hand at fencing after a quick 20 min leason. Like hamster said, distance and control were great plus balance, kept very low to the ground and talk about fast footwork.

3 Card Trick
-5th May 2003, 22:50
It's always real interesting when the full weapon test kit comes out. There are far too few fencers who actually know that they have fully legal weapons.

Having said that my real bete noir is those that do know what a legal weapon is and deliberately fence with one they know isn't.

kingkenny
-6th May 2003, 07:31
Boxers make great fencers my grandfather was a great fencer and when he had to join the army he became a boxer and was known for his light feet and speed.

Hudson
-6th May 2003, 07:46
At me very small local club we have a one bloke come down who does the skelinton bob (throwing yourself head first down a mountain on a tea tray) For som reason he likes sabre

reposte
-6th May 2003, 17:45
Regarding blades:

I'm probably demonstrating great ignorance by asking - what about Cartell blades?

Regarding boxers - I should think it the other way around - wouldn't fencers make great boxers? When it's from ring to pist too much gray matter's been lost in the process...

srb
-12th May 2003, 12:40
I have a very vague recollection that when Pierre Harper was on 'Superstars',

(What's Superstars? I hear all you youngsters cry.)

Anyway, when Pierre was on Superstars, he had a go at boxing, and was very good at it.

(Whose Pierre Harper? I hear you even younger than the youngsters cry.)

haggis
-12th May 2003, 13:06
srb

I remember that. I think Pierre was in a "combat sports" team or something like that. I don't remember Pierre boxing but if you were looking for someone from British fencing at that time to box I'd reckon Pierre would be your man - big, strong, violent:strong: :bash:

pTeppic
-17th May 2003, 16:33
Humm, reading through the posts, don't you think that the question of blade superiority should be split into three sections, foil, epee and sabre. Just because a manufacturer is good at making foil blades doesn't make them an expert at sabre.

I'll be starting a poll for options of sabre blades, watch this space.

Kian

mango
-30th May 2003, 06:19
Today I went through all the catelogs again, shopping and weapons searching. I believe it's best to buy the same weapon as much as possible using the same grips, socket, screws, tips, everything to interchange. To me the biggest problem I have in selecting a weapon is if I go to a cataloge and I want to find a good blade; a nice bell, grip, socket, tip and pad okay, everything is always separate, you have to select each detail separately; then if you go into the e-net catelogs sometimes the selection process is not clear or they leave something ambiguous or they don't have a photograph of the hinge. So, then I don't order. This year I planned to go to nationals where i planned on buying weapons while I was there. I had to change plans, [but there's a month left so I don't know] I have this thing about travelling by myself now.

ANyway, why don't the manufacturers carry just 5 brands; in their complete form, in other words, you buy a LP/ it's FIE or not, it has a LP bell, lightweight or not; it has a swing socket or not; it has a LP tip and so forth. Then the purchaser can select one brand and stick with it. What happens is a tip will fly off during a bout and someone replaces it with a German Tip because it's in his repair kit. It seems to work out so the next time you shop you wind up buying the German made blade thinking it's best. Then the wire breaks at some point, which gets replaced by brand x and so it goes.

Vendors would probably do themselves a favor and us too by keeping a stock of just a few great brands, some good books; and we'd all be delighted.

BTW/ I think the LP mask with the lexicon cover for the eyes is not such a bad idea, it's not the whole mask it covers the eyes and it's got to be better than buying a $59 dollar cheapo to some huge event and getting jabbed in the eye.

Chris Morgan
-17th June 2003, 16:44
I have to say leon paul blades are the best, as there flexible, reliable and dont have that horrible tendecy to fail the weight tests at the last minute.:dizzy:

randomsabreur
-17th June 2003, 17:37
The horrible tendency to fail weight tests at the last minute is not a LP characteristic. It is a point weapon characteristic. I think that the only tip likely not to do that is the screwless one tho' I am not entirely sure! The best way to ensure that the weapon will not fail is test it in advance and after every fight. Also, because the spring is metal, changes in temperature will affect the weight is will hold up, so it is a good idea to test weapons in the room you will be using them..

Alternatively, do sabre!!!!! and never have to deal with weight tests again!