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Peter Pan
-3rd November 2006, 11:57
From a paper circulated at the CGC Scotland meeting last night:


"After assessing all applications it is recommended that, at this stage, we progress forward with 20 sports for planning purposes. This may be further reduced to give us the best balance of sports within the overall funding available for the Games. (20 sports includes the 5 core sports).

"Sports
Core Sports (5)
Athletics, Aquatics (including the core sport of Swimming along with the optional disciplines of Diving and Synchronised Swimming), Lawn Bowls, Netball (women), Rugby Sevens (men)

Additional Sports
Badminton, Boxing, Cricket (subject to ICC approval), Cycling, Golf (subject to CGF approval of the International Golf Federation application), Gymnastics, Hockey, Judo, Rowing, Shooting, Squash, Table Tennis, Triathlon, Weightlifting, Wrestling"

Notice anything missing?

vil
-3rd November 2006, 12:06
Synchronised swimming? Golf?? Cricket?!? :eek:

Bah, humbug!

Boo Boo
-3rd November 2006, 12:10
Synchronised swimming? Golf?? Cricket?!? :eek:

Bah, humbug!

The core sport of "lawn bowls" is what gets me... :rolleyes:

Still maybe there is an opportunity in that... as one gets too old for fencing, maybe one could age towards the minimum age for lawn bowls... (a PROPER Commonwealth sport...) :)

madfencer
-3rd November 2006, 12:42
Now THAT sucks!! :(

Peter Pan
-17th January 2007, 13:26
..... assuming Glasgow wins the bid, as it's also been dropped from Delhi 2010

Jack McConnell announced the sports for inclusion in the Glasgow bid last night - as predicted fencing was not included.

I was at the CGCS meeting the night before when I was informed fencing had been demoted to a new third tier of sports which are now deemed ineligible for inclusion "without further development and growth across the Commonwealth"

Not surprisingly I kicked up a bit of a fuss and at least Louise Martin (Chair) appeared on BBC news last night with the backdrop of a lot of TV footage of fencing from the UKSG saying it was a shame for sports like fencing who had worked hard for inclusion but who had been demoted.

Interesting fact picked up at the time - we need to include weightlifting because that's the only sport Nauru (all 21 sq km of it) does - and they get equal votes with all other members!

Any Canadian Forumites out there? Do you know if Halifax is including fencing in its bid???? Should we be backing Halifax's bid???

Rdb811
-17th January 2007, 13:52
The core sport of "lawn bowls" is what gets me... :rolleyes:



Rink (or whatever the flat version is called) or crown green (the man's version) ?

Gangsta G
-17th January 2007, 15:28
Judging from the results from the CFC and JCFC in Belfast and Chennai in 2006, there are not many Commonwealth countries that take fencing very seriously - or at least, seriously enough to send full teams to these events. Only when this happens will fencing gain more recognition at Commonwealth level. Although I have to say that the inclusion of lawn bowls as a 'core sport' is odd to say the least!

hokers
-17th January 2007, 15:55
But we're not expecting fencing to recombine with the main Commonwealth games are we? It's been split out for ages I thought?

Peter Pan
-17th January 2007, 16:31
But we're not expecting fencing to recombine with the main Commonwealth games are we? It's been split out for ages I thought?

Er, yes - that's what we've been trying to achieve since fencing was dropped from the main CGs in 1974; the CGs are just a tad more prestigious than the Commonwealth Fencing Championships and inclusion would be a major step up for fencing. This has been a primary aim of teh Commonwealth Fencing Federation for many years.

Rdb811
-17th January 2007, 16:39
Why not get together with some other minority sports and hold a "Fringe" Comonwealth Games ?

Isn't bowls the sport taht ousted fencing ?

Peter Pan
-17th January 2007, 16:59
Judging from the results from the CFC and JCFC in Belfast and Chennai in 2006, there are not many Commonwealth countries that take fencing very seriously - or at least, seriously enough to send full teams to these events. Only when this happens will fencing gain more recognition at Commonwealth level. Although I have to say that the inclusion of lawn bowls as a 'core sport' is odd to say the least!

I think there were about 17 Commonwealth nations (out of 71) in Belfast and one or two more in Chennai. That's quite good - however, the point was made at the CGCS meeting on Monday that ALL sports claim "wide" participation of 17 - 20 nations - But they're always the same ones. The HCs, Jersey, Guernsey, IoM, Aus, NZ, SA, Canada then as many as you can get from Malaysia, Singapore, India, Sri Lanka, Pakistan and often Nigeria.

The CGF regards the world as 6 regions and we didn't have any Caribbean nations - and it is easily spotted that eg the Nigeria team in Belfast was mainly a (resident) Scot and a Londoner! various other more exotic teams in the past have comprised mainly ex-pats. They say that they are looking for REAL commonwealth-wide participation and spectator interest.

This is why eg shooting is strong - as votes are one per nation, Falkland Islands and Fiji count the same as India! Yet the commonwealth includes 1.7bn people but Falkland Islands (pop about 1,800 last time I was there) has 1.5% of the votes!

Baldric
-17th January 2007, 17:32
... as votes are one per nation, Falkland Islands and Fiji count the same as India! Yet the commonwealth includes 1.7bn people but Falkland Islands (pop about 1,800 last time I was there) has 1.5% of the votes!

Can we take this as an official position that in negotiations between the home countries, each should get a vote in proportion to their population? :whistle:

Sorry - cheap shot. I'll get my coat. :nanananan

Stephen Chivers
-17th January 2007, 17:52
This is why eg shooting is strongWhat's egg shooting? Firing bullets at eggs or firing eggs at targets?

Sorry, even cheaper shot. I shall follow Baldric out of the door.

gbm
-17th January 2007, 19:11
Can we take this as an official position that in negotiations between the home countries, each should get a vote in proportion to their population? :whistle:

Sorry - cheap shot. I'll get my coat. :nanananan

Given that India has 1bn of the Commonwealth's 1.7bn, then proportional representation for the Commonwealth Games could be a little one-sided :whistle:

Although since they fence in India, we may have only 17 of the Commonwealth's nations but those nations represent the vast majority of the commonwealth! :thumbs_up

Nick_C
-17th January 2007, 23:04
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6261885.stm

thank god france didnt enter the commonwealth... we'd never win any medals then ;)

Rdb811
-17th January 2007, 23:53
I think there were about 17 Commonwealth nations (out of 71) in Belfast and one or two more in Chennai. That's quite good - however, the point was made at the CGCS meeting on Monday that ALL sports claim "wide" participation of 17 - 20 nations - But they're always the same ones. The HCs, Jersey, Guernsey, IoM, Aus, NZ, SA, Canada then as many as you can get from Malaysia, Singapore, India, Sri Lanka, Pakistan and often Nigeria.

The CGF regards the world as 6 regions and we didn't have any Caribbean nations - and it is easily spotted that eg the Nigeria team in Belfast was mainly a (resident) Scot and a Londoner! various other more exotic teams in the past have comprised mainly ex-pats. They say that they are looking for REAL commonwealth-wide participation and spectator interest.

This is why eg shooting is strong - as votes are one per nation, Falkland Islands and Fiji count the same as India! Yet the commonwealth includes 1.7bn people but Falkland Islands (pop about 1,800 last time I was there) has 1.5% of the votes!

There is certainly fencing in Barbados.

Marcos
-18th January 2007, 12:17
.....

"without further development and growth across the Commonwealth"



has the Commonwealth Fencing body done anything to increase the sport in new countries?

Obviously football, fuelled by huge resources, has put money into Africa, etc

The FIE have tried to improve fencing across Middle East, North Africa and South America (you can argue with the methods, but the will is there)

If Commonwealth Fencing hasn't done this sort of activity either directly or indirectly through supporting the efforts of the Nations Olympic Commitee, what do you expect?

Peter Pan
-18th January 2007, 13:52
If Commonwealth Fencing hasn't done this sort of activity either directly or indirectly through supporting the efforts of the Nations Olympic Commitee, what do you expect?

First, I am not an official spokesman of the CFF!

Second, the CFF has an annual budget (from memory) of about 2,000. The costs of (volunteer) officials travelling to meetings and championships is usually subsidised by themselves or their employers. Not much left over to help develop fencing in newer fencing nations

The CFF has offered subsidised membership fees to poorer countries and is trying to encourage those which fence to enter championships. There are two difficulties here - 1) increasing fencing activity in developing fencing nations and 2) getting developing fencing nations to enter championships

As we (Scotland) struggle to make headway in (1) at home, I don't think the leading members of the CFF can really take responsibility for this in foreign parts.

(2) will always be difficult as attending championships is expensive - I think there is a case for re-considering the format of the CFFCs so they take place over a shorter time to reduce costs

Quoting RDB11 "There is certainly fencing in Barbados." - yes, but to make a difference to fencing's chance of being included in CGs they need to a) be seen competing at Commonwealth level and b) add to the argument that fencing is popular - to watch as well as participate in - across the Commonwealth.

Rdb811
-18th January 2007, 13:58
Cricket has put a lot of effort into "upgrading" the leading non-Test nations - most sports have made some sort effort to globalise - perhaps it would be a good idea for the active CFF nations to put some money aside for development.

Marcos
-18th January 2007, 14:07
2000 isn;t going to go too far!

Peter Pan explains the situation very well and answers the question.

But as it stands, the CFF must manae people's expectations - looks unlikely that Fencing as a sport is going to gain any traction in non-Fencing countries, and until that happens I would guess that Fencing is not going to be admitted

But you can use the One Nation One vote to your advantage. Target the smaller nations - get Fencing into the Falklands and Nauru !

(isn;t Malta in the commonwealth? maybe not, but they have fencing so, cultural difference aside, shows that the sport can take-off in smaller countries)

O*N
-18th January 2007, 21:45
Don't you see, old chaps, the British Empire was not built on sweat (at least not the sweat of the British) and as such a competition which is to represent the very essence of the commonwealth cannot include a sport as inducive to sweating as our own.

Besides lets be honest it's more of a French sport and they are the very antithesis of what it means to be part of the British empire. What with all that style and culture? What?

Anyone for a game of Lawn Bowls while we wait for the second inning?

Toodle pip!

..fullmoon

Rdb811
-19th January 2007, 09:40
Don't you see, old chaps, the British Empire was not built on sweat (at least not the sweat of the British) and as such a competition which is to represent the very essence of the commonwealth cannot include a sport as inducive to sweating as our own.

Besides lets be honest it's more of a French sport and they are the very antithesis of what it means to be part of the British empire. What with all that style and culture? What?

Anyone for a game of Lawn Bowls while we wait for the second inning?

Toodle pip!

..fullmoon

Innings !!!!

Someone once told me a comment by Punch Bertrand (I think) - "If you want to sweat, go to a gymnasium" - in a fairly pinched old school voice.

andylymn
-15th January 2013, 06:02
From a paper circulated at the CGC Scotland meeting last night:


"After assessing all applications it is recommended that, at this stage, we progress forward with 20 sports for planning purposes. This may be further reduced to give us the best balance of sports within the overall funding available for the Games. (20 sports includes the 5 core sports).

"Sports
Core Sports (5)
Athletics, Aquatics (including the core sport of Swimming along with the optional disciplines of Diving and Synchronised Swimming), Lawn Bowls, Netball (women), Rugby Sevens (men)

Additional Sports
Badminton, Boxing, Cricket (subject to ICC approval), Cycling, Golf (subject to CGF approval of the International Golf Federation application), Gymnastics, Hockey, Judo, Rowing, Shooting, Squash, Table Tennis, Triathlon, Weightlifting, Wrestling"

Notice anything missing?

Interesting to see how many other nations do triathlon. Yes likes of Home nations, Canada, Aus, NZ, RSA but wouldn't think many more than that. Think there's more of a who's going to win the medals as well as who's likely to compete. Interesting that there are caribbean islands that are affiliated to FIE so maybe they need a bit of a boost and be invited. At least do some marketing in that direction.

Hungry Hippo
-16th January 2013, 08:54
I didn't think that Fencing had been in the Commonwealth Games for many years, for much the same reason that the Aussies don't invite us back to the Australian Youth Olympics!

There is of course the Commonwelath Fencing Championships (Set for Glasgow in November 2014), which runs the same year as the Games. Then there's the Junior version, which runs between the Senior version, so was last held in Jersey in Feb 2012.

But these are a very different thing.............

scottishsabreur
-16th January 2013, 09:58
The Commonwealth Champs are not to be in Glasgow. Apparently, they will be in Largs...which is no where near Glasgow though it's a bit more picturesque... :)

Gav
-16th January 2013, 10:13
The Commonwealth Champs are not to be in Glasgow. Apparently, they will be in Largs...which is no where near Glasgow though it's a bit more picturesque... :)

I had not heard this - interesting!

At least there will be fine fish and chips and ice cream on offer. Although the night life is a bit poor.

Vicomte_de_Bragelonne
-16th January 2013, 10:34
I didn't think that Fencing had been in the Commonwealth Games for many years

1970 Games in Edinburgh.

Medals dominated by England (7 out of 8 Golds) with a sprinkling for Scotland, Australia and Canada.

J4G
-16th January 2013, 11:45
Apparently the fencing commonwealths and the original commonwealths are not allowed to be held in the same city at the moment

Hyde
-16th January 2013, 12:16
Any Commonwealth sporting event that is not part of the main games must be three months clear of the main Games. It can be in Glasgow, as long it meets the date criteria.

The Commonwealth Fencing Championships in 2014 will, in fact, be in Largs about 20 miles from Glasgow in November 2014. More info to follow very soon.

Chris

n_freebody
-16th January 2013, 12:32
Hmm Largs in November. Thats going to be lovely, warm, and dry :P

Gav
-16th January 2013, 12:36
Nice in May! There's even a regular fencing tournament there!

CaptainCommuter
-16th January 2013, 17:21
Any Commonwealth sporting event that is not part of the main games must be three months clear of the main Games. It can be in Glasgow, as long it meets the date criteria.

The Commonwealth Fencing Championships in 2014 will, in fact, be in Largs about 20 miles from Glasgow in November 2014. More info to follow very soon.

Chris

Will the organisers be wanting any volunteers/helpers?

cesh_fencing
-16th January 2013, 20:32
The Commonwealth Fencing Championships in 2014 will, in fact, be in Largs about 20 miles from Glasgow in November 2014. More info to follow very soon.

Hope to see all the selection schemes for the home nations coming out sooner rather than later so people know the selection criteria prior to that selection period coming into force (i.e. more than a year prior to the selection cut-off date).

We will wait and see...

Not quite a Vet
-16th January 2013, 21:33
Will the organisers be wanting any volunteers/helpers?

There were forms for volunteering for the Commonwealth Championships being handed out at the Scottish Open. So I'd suggest just giving SF a quick e-mail.

27ab1c
-16th January 2013, 21:54
Any Commonwealth sporting event that is not part of the main games must be three months clear of the main Games. It can be in Glasgow, as long it meets the date criteria.

The Commonwealth Fencing Championships in 2014 will, in fact, be in Largs about 20 miles from Glasgow in November 2014. More info to follow very soon.

Chris

Is that only if it's in the same city? Or in the same country? 2010 Commonwealth Fencing Championships in Australia overlapped with the Commonwealth Games in India.

Hyde
-16th January 2013, 21:58
Will the organisers be wanting any volunteers/helpers?

Absolutely. There will be a volunteer section on the event website when it is launched where you will be able to submit your details and skills.

Alternatively, please drop either the SF office or me an email (chris at scottish-fencing.com) and detail any specific skills or experience you have that may be of use.

Hyde
-16th January 2013, 22:00
Is that only if it's in the same city? Or in the same country? 2010 Commonwealth Fencing Championships in Australia overlapped with the Commonwealth Games in India.

Only if it's in the same country as the main games.

Foilling Around
-17th January 2013, 13:28
Am I right that the veterans is going to be with the seniors the same as it was in Melbourne?

Hyde
-17th January 2013, 14:52
Am I right that the veterans is going to be with the seniors the same as it was in Melbourne?

We're planning it will be run in the same venue but immediately after the Senior Champs.

Not quite a Vet
-17th January 2013, 18:55
Am I right that the veterans is going to be with the seniors the same as it was in Melbourne?

The Dates are on the Commonwealth Federation Site all be it tentatively, Seniors 10-15 Nov and Veterans 16-19 Nov.

http://www.commonwealthfencing.org/

Rids
-17th January 2013, 22:35
Hope to see all the selection schemes for the home nations coming out sooner rather than later so people know the selection criteria prior to that selection period coming into force (i.e. more than a year prior to the selection cut-off date).

We will wait and see...
The Welsh Fencing Senior Selection Policy has now been ratified by the Executive Board, and is on our website for all to see.

The News article is here: http://welshfencing.org/2011/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=608:senior-team-selection&catid=1:latest-news&Itemid=18'

The Detailed Policy is here: http://welshfencing.org/2011/?option=com_content&view=article&id=607:executive-board&catid=47:selection&Itemid=411

Not quite a Vet
-18th January 2013, 10:30
The Welsh Fencing Senior Selection Policy has now been ratified by the Executive Board, and is on our website for all to see.

The News article is here: http://welshfencing.org/2011/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=608:senior-team-selection&catid=1:latest-news&Itemid=18'

The Detailed Policy is here: http://welshfencing.org/2011/?option=com_content&view=article&id=607:executive-board&catid=47:selection&Itemid=411

Well done the Welsh, as always completely on the ball. I find your site very helpful if I need news or reports on things like the 5 Nations etc.

J4G
-18th January 2013, 10:37
Very clear for the welsh selection, hope to see something as robust for Scottish fencers so we know what we're aiming for

Vicomte_de_Bragelonne
-18th January 2013, 13:11
Very clear for the welsh selection, hope to see something as robust for Scottish fencers so we know what we're aiming for

Scottish Team selection has always been fairly clear going back many years.

The current criteria are here http://scottish-fencing.co.uk/team/2011/01/31/selection-scottish-senior-teams

I wouldn't expect much variation from this for the Commonwealth, the principal difference being 5 rather than 4 for each weapon. Not sure whether any discretionary element would come into it. I know in the past it's been a straight Top 5 based on points gained in the qualifying period - can't get much clearer than that. (there have also IIRC been some criteria in the past about competing in Scottish events during the qualifying period.)