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Boo Boo
-13th August 2007, 13:06
Ok, is my mind going (or gone?), but has the GB Team for the senior worlds been posted yet?

It is normally selected straight after the nationals (or just before it), but I don't THINK that I have seen anything about it yet... :confused:

Boo

cesh_fencing
-17th August 2007, 17:54
Not heard of any selection happening yet...

Event website is here.....
http://www.fencing2007.com/en/ffr/privetstviya/

It will be interesting to see how many 'Golden Tickets' will be passed out and how many fencers who go have actually qualified.

Boo Boo
-17th August 2007, 18:43
Forgot I had even posted this thread...


Not heard of any selection happening yet...

Maybe we wont have a team this year...? Maybe GW is running off to Barbados, instead, with UK Sport's money...? :p (OR maybe just general BF lack of communication - possibly more likely...)

cesh_fencing
-4th September 2007, 12:14
Still have not seen the selection for the Worlds on the BF Website..

I see on the President's News that the team are at training camps abroad, but who has qualified for the event and who is actually going?

Boo Boo
-4th September 2007, 12:44
:whistle: :whistle: :whistle:

Boo

miker
-10th September 2007, 09:31
Team is up on BF website.

miker
-10th September 2007, 09:33
Team is up on BF website.

Here... (http://www.britishfencing.com/British_Fencing.asp?PageID=752)

ChubbyHubby
-10th September 2007, 17:31
Still have not seen the selection for the Worlds on the BF Website..

I see on the President's News that the team are at training camps abroad, but who has qualified for the event and who is actually going?

Looks like full teams except for WE.

Full teams are a good thing, but still a mystery as why the apparent U-turn in selection policy...

Could it be that UK-Sport now actually want full teams? Or were they ever against it in the first place?

Another fencer
-10th September 2007, 21:19
Full teams = Olympic pathway?

Red
-10th September 2007, 21:22
Full teams = Olympic pathway?

Men's sabre isn't a full team for individuals - Stuart Marshall is only going for the team event.

Olympic Qualification is by teams, so full strength teams have to go to the team event at least. Will WE be at the Beijing Games?

cesh_fencing
-11th September 2007, 00:17
Men's sabre isn't a full team for individuals - Stuart Marshall is only going for the team event.

Olympic Qualification is by teams, so full strength teams have to go to the team event at least. Will WE be at the Beijing Games?

It will be at either Beijing or 2012 for certain.

If all the others are going for experience why not Ladies Epee as well. They could do with the exposure? Seems unfair that we have a full team from one weapon where not a single fencer has qualified (by selection standards) and not from all?

I guess the question is whether there are any Olympic Pathway atletes that do Ladies Epee? Answer not currently.

Hopefully there will be some kind of review at some point to identify individuals not showing improvement/have already reached their potential and identifying others who are not currently supported who deserve to be.

Whatever; well done to Jo Maynard for bashing on the door loud enough to be allowed to go as the sole WEist, well deserved, shame you will be lacking warming up partners etc. And well done to all those who have qualified in full or are working hard on the pathway scheme and are making the trip.

Good luck and I wish that you get the results your hard work deserves.

Red
-11th September 2007, 09:30
WE - Jo - 1*L16
WF - Anna - 2*L64, 1*L32, Martina - 3*L64, Elizabeth - 2*L64, Claire - 1*L64
WS - Louise - 1*3rd, 3*L16, 3*L32, 2*L64, JoJo - 2*L16, 1*L32, 2*L64, Chrystall - 1*L16, 2*L32, 6*L64, Jess - 4*L64, Katie - 2*L64 (But a stunning Junior season)

ME - Jon - 1*1st, 3*L32, 2*L64, Tom C - 2*L16, 1*L32, 2*L64, James - 3*L32, 3*L64, Tom B - 1*L16
MF - Richard - 1*L16, 4*L32, 2*L64, James - 3*L32, 3*L64, Laurence - 2*L32, 4*L64, Keith - 3*L64
MS - Neil - 2*L32, 2*L64, Chris - 1*L16, 1*L64, Alex - 1*L64 (But a stunning Junior season)

Selection scheme para. 26...


26. The qualifying standard for World Championships selection will be at least one
L8 result, or one L16 and one L32, in Senior World Championships/Senior European
Championships/FIE Grand Prix/World Cup (A Grade) competitions in the period of
12 months prior to the selection date but see paragraphs 29/30/31/32/33.

By this we have only SIX fencers qualified, but para. 32 says


32. Fencers selected for the individual competition shall not automatically be
selected to fence in the team event at the Senior World or European
Championships. The fencers for the team event will be selected by the Performance
Director and National Coach, with the advice of the relevant weapon committee.
The selection group may, in their absolute discretion, take any factors and results
that they feel to be relevant into account in making the selection. Fencers so
selected, may fence in the individual event, even if not qualified, provided that in
doing so, they do not deprive a qualified fencer from competing in the individual.
Fencers who are not fencing in the individual event may be selected to fence in the
team event.

hokers
-11th September 2007, 10:21
That is an awesome post Red, good research there.

How did the two team-only fencers, David and Stuart do in last season's results?

This all only becomes contraversial if there are people who have been overlooked who have comparable international results to others who have had discretionary selection.

Given that we have teams in 5 out of 6 weapons, was there no scope for sending a couple of other WEs for the team only? I guess that's been considered fully, but surely if 1*L64 is enough for some people to go then we have some other fencers who are of a comparable level of skill in WE, even if they didn't get the results?

Threestain
-11th September 2007, 13:21
it seems that as we haven't been consistently getting results at WE that it is better that it is forgotten and tossed aside. Instead of possibly trying to help the weapon of course. But then I don't agree with sending 5 team members, I 'm sure there is good reason to, but surely if you do that you have to ensure a full team elsewhere or else things appear biased (even if they are not). And if mf and ws or ms are not in 2012? good job we will have a group of experienced teams...

haggis
-11th September 2007, 13:47
There are no MF or WE teams in Beijing 2008, so they will be included in London 2012. MF team is seen as potential Olympic medallists in 2012, WE team isn't, hence full MF team at these World Champs but not WE. All other weapons are included in 2008 and hence have at least a theoretical chance of qualifying so full teams for those weapons to achieve short-term goals. You can debate the merits of any of these policies and the reasons behind them but that's where we are regarding selection for these World Championships.

Regards

Haggis

Boo Boo
-11th September 2007, 13:49
That is an awesome post Red, good research there.

Although perhaps slightly incorrect because a L64 is not always a "L64" according to the BFA... (i.e. a L64 is not always a L64 for qualifying purposes...).

Not that I want to split hairs, because I don't... it is just that the BFA has a history of splitting them if it so chooses... :whistle:

As always, I support sending full teams: to get those fencers more experience and to, hopefully, build a better foundation for the future of those weapon teams (i.e. established teams for younger fencers to come up through the ranks and become integrated into).

I feel sad that WE isn't getting the same support and opportunities that the other five weapons are :( .

Boo

Red
-11th September 2007, 14:00
Although perhaps slightly incorrect because a L64 is not always a "L64" according to the BFA... (i.e. a L64 is not always a L64 for qualifying purposes...).

Not that I want to split hairs, because I don't... it is just that the BFA has a history of splitting them if it so chooses... :whistle:

As always, I support sending full teams: to get those fencers more experience and to, hopefully, build a better foundation for the future of those weapon teams (i.e. established teams for younger fencers to come up through the ranks and become integrated into).

I feel sad that WE isn't getting the same support and opportunities that the other five weapons are :( .

Boo

I just went through the FIE rankings and took all the events where points were scored, so L64s that didn't score weren't included. I have no idea which competitions were downgraded, as I didn't have time to go through each and every British ranking list to find the NIFs of every GP/WC where points were scored.

Boo Boo
-11th September 2007, 14:15
I just went through the FIE rankings and took all the events where points were scored, so L64s that didn't score weren't included. I have no idea which competitions were downgraded, as I didn't have time to go through each and every British ranking list to find the NIFs of every GP/WC where points were scored.

Ah they are different... if you look at the British Rankings, you will find that results that count as an FIE L64 (and score FIE points) do not always count as a L64 for British Purposes (and don't score British ranking points)...

Boo

Red
-11th September 2007, 14:28
Ah they are different... if you look at the British Rankings, you will find that results that count as an FIE L64 (and score FIE points) do not always count as a L64 for British Purposes (and don't score British ranking points)...

Boo

Indeed, which is why I left it as it was. I don't want to get such a headache so early in the week ;)

cesh_fencing
-11th September 2007, 14:37
MF team is seen as potential Olympic medallists in 2012, WE team isn't, hence full MF team at these World Champs but not WE.

It would seem that we are writing off a complete weapon with 5 years to go until 2012. 2 years ago Mens Epee was deemed not worth the pistes they were fencing on, however with a series of solid and one spectacular result since they are seen as having 'potential' now.

We only recently had a WE World Cadet Finalist (that result was flagged very highly by BF) who I guess will be about 23 for 2012, let alone some of the younger girls who will be 20 odd by then and could well have a chance of being world beaters if the older ones are disregarded.

Thinking about it some of the MFists could well be over the hill by then, especially with the various injuries they are carrying now, let alone after 5 more hard seasons.

Tubby
-11th September 2007, 14:57
Oh dear, looks as if we got in the wrong queue again by picking WE for Mudge to concentrate on. Now where did I put that lame....

haggis
-12th September 2007, 09:51
It would seem that we are writing off a complete weapon with 5 years to go until 2012. 2 years ago Mens Epee was deemed not worth the pistes they were fencing on, however with a series of solid and one spectacular result since they are seen as having 'potential' now.

We only recently had a WE World Cadet Finalist (that result was flagged very highly by BF) who I guess will be about 23 for 2012, let alone some of the younger girls who will be 20 odd by then and could well have a chance of being world beaters if the older ones are disregarded.


I don't necessarily disagree with you but it seems pretty clear that British Fencing's International Committee and our Performance Director does! Perhaps that will change if Womens Epee makes similar progress to what the men have but currently WE does seem to be bottom of the weapons pecking order.

Libby
-17th September 2007, 21:54
I just went through the FIE rankings and took all the events where points were scored, so L64s that didn't score weren't included. I have no idea which competitions were downgraded, as I didn't have time to go through each and every British ranking list to find the NIFs of every GP/WC where points were scored.

Just for the sake of completeness...

I think the FIE do not award points where there is not a complete tableau. So if the comp is cut after the poules to 63 then the 64th ranked fencer does not get FIE points.

On the British side it is even simpler - finish in the top 50% and it counts.

Myself, Hannah C-C and Mary all got L64's in Florina by virtue of winning 2 or 3 poule fights, avoided the cut to 64 and hence got fie points. There were only 78 in the comp and so we would have had to have been ranked 39 or below. The highest of us was 50th so no joy british points wise.

Downgrading of competitions and results is as far as I know pretty rare, and I would hazard a guess a very unlikely occurrence during Olympic qualifying.