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Keith.A.Smith
-25th October 2007, 21:17
Dear All,

Here are the Whitgift Entry forms for 2007.

Please note that both competitions will be on Saturday 8th December.

See you there,

Keith

Keith.A.Smith
-18th November 2007, 18:21
Dear All,

The Whitgift LPJS epee and sabre draws nearer. Do please enter as soon as you can so I have an idea of how many people are coming.

Thanks,

Keith

Keith.A.Smith
-9th December 2007, 13:52
Dear All,

Many thanks to all the referees who helped out on Saturday and to the older fencers who volunteered. My thanks to all adults who made the day go so smoothly. We had nearly 200 fencers and were over by just after 5pm.

Hope the fencers enjoyed the chocolates.

Keith

vikkia
-9th December 2007, 23:07
Dear All,

Many thanks to all the referees who helped out on Saturday and to the older fencers who volunteered. My thanks to all adults who made the day go so smoothly. We had nearly 200 fencers and were over by just after 5pm.

Hope the fencers enjoyed the chocolates.

Keith
Thanks Keith !!
Great day well organised and we still got home for 7pm!! all the way to Yorks

Hungry Hippo
-10th December 2007, 08:45
A splendid performance by Keith and his team to get through both weapons in one day. Not as easy with youngsters as there's always a lot more explaining to do to keep everything running smoothly.

A good day out, and yes, Keith, the chocolates were much appreciated by all!

wilbur
-10th May 2008, 14:04
Just resuscitating this thread to find out if anyone can confirm the date of the Whitgift Epee this year - nothing in the LPJS calendar yet.

I know it's early, but need to sort out other commitments in December!

Thanks,

Wilbur

wilbur
-1st June 2008, 15:01
Just bumping again as Whitgift isn't in any calendars (LPJS or BFA) for 2008 - is there going to be a Whitgift LPJS epee this year, and if so, when?

Wilbur

Keith.A.Smith
-6th June 2008, 08:19
Dear All,

I am looking at 23rd November as having trouble getting the Sports Centre in December as there are other school events going on.

Do you think this date is OK?

Keith

andrew britton
-6th June 2008, 08:41
I CAN'T SEE ANY PROBLEMS WITH SUNDAY 23RD NOVEMBER 2008

Andrew

Neil Brown
-6th June 2008, 09:37
I CAN'T SEE ANY PROBLEMS WITH SUNDAY 23RD NOVEMBER 2008

Andrew

I can. Bath Leon Paul sabre is that day, calendar is at http://www.leonpauljuniorseries.com/?q=event/2008/11/01/month/all/all/1

cesh_fencing
-6th June 2008, 14:41
The Elite Epee dates before Xmas are scheduled (and venue booked) for 25th Oct and 13th Dec so please avaoid clashes with those.

tigger
-7th June 2008, 16:54
If Whitgift moves to November, we'll belooking to run a Cornwall LPJS Sabre in December!

23rd Nov looks fine

wilbur
-3rd September 2008, 18:47
A quick bump - still no Whitgift Epee in the LPJS calendar - will this be happening this year?

Wilbur

PM1
-3rd September 2008, 21:17
Dear All,

I am looking at 23rd November as having trouble getting the Sports Centre in December as there are other school events going on.

Do you think this date is OK?

Keith
Not that it should affect an LPJS, but the London International epee is that w/e too.

cesh_fencing
-3rd September 2008, 21:33
Having just spoken to Keith this event is planned to be fitted in after Xmas, date to be announced in due course..

wilbur
-3rd September 2008, 22:01
Thanks for clarifying that, so it will be next (LPJS) season then,

Wilbur

d_f_a
-12th September 2008, 13:28
Does this mean that the last LPJS Epee event of the season is Millfield on 2nd November - which clashes with the SE BYC Epee qualifer??????? If so, how do the young fencers decide whats more improtant - finishing the LPJS having spent the year travelling the whole country OR the chance to qualify for the BYC. Not an easy choice.

cesh_fencing
-12th September 2008, 17:21
If so, how do the young fencers decide whats more improtant - finishing the LPJS having spent the year travelling the whole country OR the chance to qualify for the BYC. Not an easy choice.

The BYC qualifier gives the chance to fence at the British Age-group championships so is far more important that competing at a series type event.

d_f_a
-12th September 2008, 17:45
I know cf, but if a young fencer is high in the LPJS having travelled from London to Scotland & Cornwall etc and having very few weekends off in the Spring Term it would be a shame if all that hard work is spoilt by missing the last LP and dropping several places.

cesh_fencing
-12th September 2008, 18:33
British and England events have far more kudos than any of the series as all the fencers who are competitive attend those events.

The LPJS, Premier Series and EES are there for development and the way the LPJS is scored for the final ranking (same points for winner whether 1 entry or 100) often means that the fencer who can afford to travel all around the country will win (by entering the weakest events), whether the best fencer or not. We now have England Rankings which are far more reflective of actual ability.

One of the big discussions on the forum recently has been about the way young fencers end up competing too much and getting injured. Long trips are also not good preperation for sport and avoiding it when you can is advisable.

I actually advise most of my fencers to avoid events that mean long trips and overnight stays when they can as our kids have enough to contend with with school, homework, training etc.

I understand that if you are making a full weekend, visiting sights etc to these places it is really nice for the kids but too many is worth avoiding especially if you go, sleep, fence and go home.

d_f_a
-14th September 2008, 13:53
Dear cesh,

Youíve taken my original question and completely gone off at a tangent, and for some reason I now have to defend myself!
Suggesting that the richest fencer (whether the best fencer or not ) will win the LPJS is absolutely absurd. The current leader in the age group my fencer is in is also the EYC champion Ė in foil and epee.
I defended your Elite Epee on another thread when it got into a LPJS vs. EES argument and I donít think you should be digging up the debate again.
No LPJS competition in Boys epee is particularly weak, Warwick and Whitgift are the best attended and all the others are about the same.
The fact that only one fencer that I teach has entered all the LPJS shows that I havenít pressured them into long trips etc.
The particular fencer of mine did very well in the first 2 LPJS and we decided he should concentrate on this series for this year. The long distance trips to Cornwall and Scotland were both weekends away and were fun. There was no pressure from school being near the end of the year (little homework etc).
Iíve been reading with interest the thread on injury recently, but in this case there is not much difference in competing at a weekend or training at school for 4 hours on a Sunday.
I donít want this to end up in an argument with cesh, Iíll see you at EES soon.

ED_R
-14th September 2008, 15:08
Perhaps Iím missing Ceshís point, but isnít DFA just saying itís a pity that the two events are on the same day? We all know that the BYC is more important. The point is that a series requires a lot of effort, and to miss out on the last in a series is a shame for a young fencer who has put that effort in.

Could I just add a few other things:

First the people who travel round the country to go to LPJS do not seem to me to have more money than other people. My guess is that people who do, have chosen to spend part of what they have on fencing. Most of us are like that Ė we have to make choices. To travel round the country doing LPJS shows commitment! Others decide to go to one or two, and thatís fine too Ė they no doubt show their commitment in other ways.

Second I am not aware of anyone getting injured by a handful of tournaments. Thatís just plain nonsense. Matt Duggan, who went to all the competitions appears to be in great health, and an even better fencer than when he started the year.

Third the decision about homework is a personal one. My son does his homework as reluctantly as any other twelve year old. But he has never been choosing between work and fencing. He does both.

cesh_fencing
-14th September 2008, 19:57
Dear cesh,I defended your Elite Epee on another thread when it got into a LPJS vs. EES argument and I donít think you should be digging up the debate again.

This was not my intention. The point I was making is that I see all the various kiddies series (LPJS, Premier, Elite Epee) events as 'development' events. If there was a clash between an BYC qualifier and an EES event I would direct the competitive kids to the BYC qualifier and have a smaller EES event with just the new to competition kids who would get battered at the BYC event.

I do try to keep the amount of fencing that the young kids I coach (under 14)fairly low and where possible as local as possible. Very few will do more than 10 competitions a year and most much less. I would prefer a later developing fencer who trained less at 11, 12, 13 than a broken one at 15/16 with early success and then a limited future career.

As a long term competitive fencer (Senior International career over nearly 20 years) I know that 'smart' training and selective competition choice is all important to keep injury/future injury at bay.

Tubby
-21st October 2008, 08:54
- Bump -

Is it definitely the case that Whitgift epee is no longer on the 2008 LPJS calendar?

Does Brixton Epee (30 Nov) bring down the curtain on the 2008 season?

Tubby
-21st October 2008, 08:57
Doh - helps if I read the LPJS web page. No Whitgift.

Barry Paul
-21st October 2008, 09:53
[QUOTE=cesh_fencing;203401]British and England events have far more kudos than any of the series as all the fencers who are competitive attend those events.

The LPJS, Premier Series and EES are there for development End Quote

Sorry to disagree the LPJS series was and as far as I am concerned is a fun introduction to fencing for kids. At the beginning we insisted on two rounds of fencing to give all the kids as much fencing as possible.

Before the LPJS there were almost no competitions for youngsters. It is only the creation of lots of young fencers who have experience competitive fencing in the LPJS that created the demand and numbers so that the British events and now the English events have any meaning, kudos and numbers.

It is selectors and parents which have in some cases turn the LPJS event into a stressful selection event.

The premiers series was created because certain coaches wanted to do away with two rounds of fencing so that there top fencers could cut to the chase and finish early.

cesh_fencing
-21st October 2008, 11:22
[QUOTE=cesh_fencing;203401]British and England events have far more kudos than any of the series as all the fencers who are competitive attend those events.

The LPJS, Premier Series and EES are there for development End Quote

Sorry to disagree the LPJS series was and as far as I am concerned is a fun introduction to fencing for kids. At the beginning we insisted on two rounds of fencing to give all the kids as much fencing as possible.
.

This is a disagreement of terms I feel. You say fun introduction, I say development. Fun introduction to fencing is Starter Classes and school clubs, once kids start to compete I see this as a development phase. I also see the Elite Epee events as an introduction to competition in a fun and relaxed nature as possible (though we also get more experienced kids who want to use the event as part of their gaining of competition experience). I cannot comment on the Premier series as I have not actually attended one.


Before the LPJS there were almost no competitions for youngsters. It is only the creation of lots of young fencers who have experience competitive fencing in the LPJS that created the demand and numbers so that the British events and now the English events have any meaning, kudos and numbers. .
Agreed without the LPJS in the past there would only have been county and regional events locally. Now with the huge development of fencing in the country we are in a great position to run more events in different parts of the country to give fencers more chances to compete without having to travel excessive distances. This is where localised series are especially beneficial for those in that local area, which individual coaches are the ones organising.


It is selectors and parents which have in some cases turn the LPJS event into a stressful selection event.
If you feel that LPJS events are negatively effected by being on ranking lists/selection lists, I am sure that you could insist that the LPJS events are not counted so they are not compromised by this stress put on them.


The premiers series was created because certain coaches wanted to do away with two rounds of fencing so that there top fencers could cut to the chase and finish early. Cannot comment as I do not know the particulars of the situation. The Elite Epee series was set up to help develop local fencers in surrey and give a low key relaxed atmosphere for kids to give competition a go. However set up in as professional manner as possible (metal pistes, referees etc) so when they do go to higher level events they are aware of what is going on. After last years series its popularity has however expanded from its local area with fencers traveling from all around the country to attend.

Tubby
-21st October 2008, 11:37
After last years series its popularity has however expanded from its local area with fencers traveling from all around the country to attend.I would add that its inclusion in the selection ranking scheme for the Engalnd Tomorrow's Achievers overseas trip has had an impact. If TA were to remove it from the ranking scheme would there be no impact?

cesh_fencing
-21st October 2008, 13:56
I would add that its inclusion in the selection ranking scheme for the Engalnd Tomorrow's Achievers overseas trip has had an impact. If TA were to remove it from the ranking scheme would there be no impact?

The number of fencers coming from further afield as a ratio is quite low (less than 10% travelling from outside SE and London). I am sure a few are coming purely for the points, however the majority are local (SE & London) and entered last year 1st event before the Elite Epee events were included on the ranking scheme.

I am happy that the fencers are coming from further afield and that the series is deemed well enough run to be included on the Tomorrow Achievers ranking scheme. Fencers from other areas give wider exposure of opponents to the fencers in my area, which will be beneficial to them.

I personally feel that having differing series with differing target audiences is great for fencing in general as it gives choice to the fencer/parent and coach so they can do what is best for their fencer wherever they are based and whatever level they are. I wish all these differing events existed when I was young as I remember the excessive distances my parents had to travel to take me to all the required events.

Anyone who comes this weekend should (I hope) go away having experienced a very good, well organised, enjoyable event so hopefully they will return for these reasons and not just the points.

Tubby
-21st October 2008, 17:17
I am happy that the fencers are coming from further afield and that the series is deemed well enough run to be included on the Tomorrow Achievers ranking scheme. Fencers from other areas give wider exposure of opponents to the fencers in my area, which will be beneficial to them.Ah, the conundrum of how to deal with the grand finals for the rolling TA ranking, glad its not me :).

I whole heartedly agree with your sentiments, more comps, more diffferent types of comps provided they are well run are welcomed in my book.