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sparkymark567
-23rd October 2003, 12:36
Last weekend, at the Leicester I bought a new foil blade and a foil barrel which I used to re-wire another foil.

Both were used for the first time on Wednesday, and both barrels have became dented so badly that both points are now stuck solid.

I noticed that one of the barrels is a different (darker) colour than normal. I suspect that the barrels have been heat treated, i.e. the manufacturer knows about the problem and has tried to fix it.

Please tell me if anyone else has had this same problem. I know that the barrels can get dented, but I've been using the german tips for a long time and I've never known the barrels to be this bad.

I'm trying to find out whether, there is a general problem with them at the moment, or whether I've just been unlucky. Allstar UK seem to think I'm unlucky, although they are replacing the barrels.

jamesthornton
-23rd October 2003, 21:29
perhaps you should think about changing manufacturer. allstar probably dont even make the barrels and so wont know about a problem. have you tried the ptfe coated leon paul points? they are excelemt dont dent easily and slide better than the german ones.

Rdb811
-23rd October 2003, 23:34
I have an Allsatr epee barrel that sheds grub screws - I 'll change the tip at the weekend.

sparkymark567
-24th October 2003, 04:16
Yes I have tried the teflon points. Sorry but I've had this conversatation too many times already. I prefer the german tips.
Just wanted to know if anyone else noticed the same problem recently.

3 Card Trick
-24th October 2003, 12:51
"Please tell me if anyone else has had this same problem. I know that the barrels can get dented, but I've been using the german tips for a long time and I've never known the barrels to be this bad"

Well you have had better luck with them than me.

stevejackson
-25th October 2003, 08:05
sparkymark567, If you're a long term user of German tips, I'm surprised you don't know about this problem already. Like most Armourers I've spent a lot of time over the years trying with varying degrees of success to take dents out of these barrels. Allstar must know about the problem because they sell a drift (Mandrel) and a reamer to help reshape the barrel.

It's your choice, use Leon Paul which I seldom see with a distortion problem and accept that they aren't quite what you want, or use Allstar and accept that periodicly (and at random intervals hence the short life of this barrel) you will make one move that distorts the barrel.

I have no association with either manufacturer beyond being a user and repairer of their products.

Whilst we talking about the issue, does anyone know what exactly causes the dent? From memory they are usually between 90 and 45 degrees to the lenght of the blade and seem randonly distributed around the circumference of the barrel. My first guess would be the opponents guard but that doesn't seem hard enough to do this sort of damage.

srb
-25th October 2003, 08:52
I have an exdanding mandrel in my bag for delivery to sparkymark on Tuesday.

srb

stevejackson
-26th October 2003, 20:30
Originally posted by srb
I have an exdanding mandrel in my bag for delivery to sparkymark on Tuesday.

srb

Please explain exdanding? Is this a new (to me) term or a mis spelling of expanding. If expanding how does it operate, does it actually remove dents and where did you get it?

Rdb811
-26th October 2003, 20:37
Isn't an expanding mandrel a type of bomb - bit like a claymore mine ?

srb
-26th October 2003, 21:48
expanding - spelling mistake.

I don't know why its called an expanding mandrel as it doesn't really expand anything. It is just what it is called on Uhlmann's website.

To remove a dent you tap the mandrel gently into the barrel past the dent. Then put the barrel on a hard surface and strike the barrel at the site of the dent (a bit like panel beating for 'action men') with a hammer. You effectively carefully beat the dent out of the barrel. As the tolerance of the barrel and mandrel is almost an interference fit, the barrel returns to its original shape. When then dent has been removed you should then be able to withdraw the mandrel from the barrel without any friction on the barrel.

It is actually very easy to do. I would recommend anybody that has german barrels also has an expanding mandrel. I check all my barrels before competitions to make sure the points don't stick.

srb

kingkenny
-27th October 2003, 09:00
That is the funniest thing I have read for a while. You have to use a tool, like a hole punch I guess, to streighten out the barrels of your points before you fence? Is it just me or does that sound crazy? Why not just have a point that can withstand fencing.

:eek:

srb
-27th October 2003, 10:07
KingKenny,

Just because I check the barrels with a mandrel before competitions doesn't mean that they are always dented. I do it just as good practice. If I used LP barrels I would still check them and clean them before every competition in the same way that I change the tape before any competition.

I previously have cracked LP barrels, so neither type of barrel is indestructable. Maybe the german barrels do deform more easily than LP barrels, but at least there is a tool available to correct the problem when it happens.

srb

kingkenny
-27th October 2003, 11:47
Sorry not having a go at you, cheecking stuff its great when people learn how to maintain a foils, lames etc. But a tool designed to fix a proplem is not a good solution to a proplem. A new point or barrel were problems do not occur is the way forward. Someone must be able to make a point that works for longer.

:upset: ;) :grin:

stevejackson
-27th October 2003, 19:33
Originally posted by srb
I don't know why its called an expanding mandrel as it doesn't really expand anything. It is just what it is called on Uhlmann's website.

srb

Thanks SRB. I just didn't recognise this under the expanding tag. I thought you were talking about a device like an expanding reamer where you could change the diameter of the mandrel to suit the problem.

Only problem I see in your description of the use of the mandrel is gently it tap into the barrel. The ones I've done required rather more than a gentle tap from my 1lb hammer. More like a full blooded swing of a 7 lb club hammer.

sparkymark567
-28th October 2003, 15:36
Originally posted by srb
I have an exdanding mandrel in my bag for delivery to sparkymark on Tuesday.

srb

Thanks very much, see you later.

mcvicar
-7th November 2003, 11:44
All I can say is I am now gutted at having just stripped my Allstar blade and rewired it because the barrel had gone. Do these mandrels really work?

I have to admit it is due to my lack of experience at kit repair that I have not come across this before, is it really that common?

What is the best tip to have, French, German, posh LP ones or what?

Australian
-8th November 2003, 00:49
i've had little problem with the german tips...

srb
-9th November 2003, 16:17
Normally the mandrels work fine. Saying that, the night before the Welsh I removed a dint from a barrel. It wasn't until the competition that I discovered that I had tapped the mandrel too far into the barrel and broken the joint between the rewire and the brass disc, so had to rewire the blade anyway.

srb

stevejackson
-11th November 2003, 20:50
McVicar, Common? subjective figures from the Welsh open. (If I'd thought I'd have done a proper count) We had 29 Foils for repair, about 20 were German tips and all had dents (including about 4 of the new strengthened ones). Not all were in for that problem but the evidence was there to see. Next time I run an armoury I'll do a proper count and get some honest figures.

mcvicar
-12th November 2003, 00:36
so would this mandrel thing work then?

srb
-12th November 2003, 07:17
Yes. if you don't do what I did above. When I rewired the foil I used the same barrel that I had removed the dint from.

SteveJ - didn't realise that was you - I will say hello next time.

srb

srb
-12th November 2003, 09:50
Steve J,

On a sideline, do you think that fencers abuse the facility of having an armoury at a competition by getting you to do repairs they should do themselves at home?

For the Welsh, I checked my foils the night before. Then the first thing I did when I arrived was tested my foils (alright wandered around aimlessly for a bit, and had a coffee). On finding a fault with a foil, I took corrective action, tested the foil using a weapon tester and foil weight and all seemed okay. It was then only when I got on the piste that the problem persisted. So I brought my foil to you for checking after the seeding round.

I explained the problem. I thought I had damaged the plastic cup on the rewire so that the spring didn't seat properly. However, on inspection, you discovered I had broken the connection between the brass disc and the rewire. So while the foil was not being used the connection was okay, hence being okay with the tester, but as soon as it was moved in a fight, the connection would break. After your diagnosis I took the foil home and promptly rewired it.

But do fencers turn up at the armoury with silly little problems that they should have solved as part of a routine pre-competition check?

srb

stevejackson
-12th November 2003, 21:16
SRB I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that to do so would incriminate myself.

I suspect that some fencers do turn up with duff kit hoping that the armourer can dig them out of a hole, there seem to be a suspicious number of weapons that turn up before the first round to be fixed. On the other hand if you don't know how to repair it yourself and there isn't someone local prepared to do the job for you what options do you have? There are also some jobs that I can do quickly that the average fencer seems to find difficult (setting a blade and assembling a weapon come to mind) and I don't mind these at least it keeps me employed over a weekend.

The main problems that I feel put upon over are the "Have a look at this it hasn't worked correctly since I got it" variety an hour later having completely rebuilt the weapon you know the major problem was a lack of simple care.

If anyone's interested I'm willing to produce some home servicing ideas that might save you time, effort, and panic at your next competition.

Prometheus
-12th November 2003, 23:32
The main problems that I feel put upon over are the "Have a look at this it hasn't worked correctly since I got it" variety an hour later having completely rebuilt the weapon you know the major problem was a lack of simple care.

You must be refering to me again! See you Thursday with my current crop of ill-maintained weaponry....:rolleyes: All Allstar tips I'm afraid - so bring your specs;)

srb
-13th November 2003, 11:15
Ah, so it was you that had the 24 foils in front of me in the queue!

srb