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Thread: The GB Jnr Championships!!!

  1. #301
    Moderator Gav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond repute Gav's Avatar
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    Jesus. DO NOT IMPLEMENT THE US RANKING SYSTEM.

    I have shouted please move along.
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  2. #302
    Senior Member Keith.A.Smith has a reputation beyond reputeKeith.A.Smith has a reputation beyond reputeKeith.A.Smith has a reputation beyond reputeKeith.A.Smith has a reputation beyond reputeKeith.A.Smith has a reputation beyond reputeKeith.A.Smith has a reputation beyond reputeKeith.A.Smith has a reputation beyond reputeKeith.A.Smith has a reputation beyond reputeKeith.A.Smith has a reputation beyond reputeKeith.A.Smith has a reputation beyond reputeKeith.A.Smith has a reputation beyond repute
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    The BF site says Neil Brown is working on developing the ranking system. Suggest people talk to him about their ideas.

  3. #303

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    Why not? What's wrong with it?

  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by Francophile View Post
    Why not? What's wrong with it?
    There's plenty wrong with it. It's poorly understood, overly complex, open to severe gaming and it's used to deal with a situation we don't have in the UK. US fencers [appear to] complain about it all the time. There are regular calls for it to be reformed but (so far as I can tell) no one at the USFA wants to deal with this entrenched system - probably because of vested interests.

    Simply put - we don't need it here.
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  5. #305
    Senior Member Peaseblossom has a spectacular aura aboutPeaseblossom has a spectacular aura about
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    Keith, is there a link to this? Thanks.

  6. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith.A.Smith View Post
    The BF site says Neil Brown is working on developing the ranking system. Suggest people talk to him about their ideas.
    I've dropped him a line.
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  7. #307
    Senior Member Keith.A.Smith has a reputation beyond reputeKeith.A.Smith has a reputation beyond reputeKeith.A.Smith has a reputation beyond reputeKeith.A.Smith has a reputation beyond reputeKeith.A.Smith has a reputation beyond reputeKeith.A.Smith has a reputation beyond reputeKeith.A.Smith has a reputation beyond reputeKeith.A.Smith has a reputation beyond reputeKeith.A.Smith has a reputation beyond reputeKeith.A.Smith has a reputation beyond reputeKeith.A.Smith has a reputation beyond repute
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    It is in the latest staff report under latest news on the BF site. It also says he has arranged for a German coach to come over in March 2013.( not sure if for coach education or personal Performsnce ).

    Also details what Alan Rapley is doing for Youth Fencing.

  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith.A.Smith View Post
    It also says he has arranged for a German coach to come over in March 2013.( not sure if for coach education or personal Performsnce ).
    It's this (I would assume).
    http://www.britishfencing.com/news/latest-news/?n=737

  9. #309
    Senior Member ED_R has a reputation beyond reputeED_R has a reputation beyond reputeED_R has a reputation beyond reputeED_R has a reputation beyond reputeED_R has a reputation beyond reputeED_R has a reputation beyond reputeED_R has a reputation beyond reputeED_R has a reputation beyond reputeED_R has a reputation beyond reputeED_R has a reputation beyond reputeED_R has a reputation beyond repute
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith.A.Smith View Post
    The BF site says Neil Brown is working on developing the ranking system. Suggest people talk to him about their ideas.
    It would be good to think that any amendments to the ranking system would be designed not just to better select the best fencers for the squads to go to the big internationals, but to provide a season wide program for all fencers that would raise the general standard of fencers, and not just the best.

    Not a thought through idea, i will admit, but if there were alternate selected internationals for fencers ranked above ninth place to learn from and as a replacement if you haven't qualified for the European selection circuit events?
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  10. #310
    Senior Member dtd is a jewel in the roughdtd is a jewel in the roughdtd is a jewel in the roughdtd is a jewel in the rough
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith.A.Smith View Post
    The BF site says Neil Brown is working on developing the ranking system. Suggest people talk to him about their ideas.
    Any indications on when changes are likely to be implemented? It would be rather nice if we knew before the new season started.......

    Is my cynicism a result of being around the forum too long, or a result of feeling my kids have been used as guinea pigs for chopping and changing plans? So what is happening about the National Academy, has it imploded or is it just limping along?
    demented taxi driver

  11. #311
    Senior Member Cyranna's Father is a splendid one to beholdCyranna's Father is a splendid one to beholdCyranna's Father is a splendid one to beholdCyranna's Father is a splendid one to beholdCyranna's Father is a splendid one to beholdCyranna's Father is a splendid one to beholdCyranna's Father is a splendid one to behold Cyranna's Father's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith.A.Smith View Post
    The BF site says Neil Brown is working on developing the ranking system. Suggest people talk to him about their ideas.
    If it ain't broke then dont fix it - there are more important things to do......for example:

    Since the Gods would like to build a base to develop young fencers toward 2024 (or 2028 or even 2032 by which time I may have lost interest in this forum) might I suggest that a good step would be to create a national ranking ladder for each relevent age group which could them be used by serious tournament organisers to seed their poules?

    This would possibly improve a number of them and make the organisers' jobs so much easier. There is no standard ranking, BYC uses one that seems to relate to results in the regional finals which may or may not reflect the ability of the fencers, Chris uses one for EE that only relates to his competitions (which isn't bad because so many top fencers enter but does allow bandits periodically to enter as rabbits) and LPJS, whilst a wonderful series of tournaments, rankings have only a tiny hold on reality since it is possible to get 25 points by being the only person to turn up and it does not take into account the difficulty of the competition.

    One ranking ladder for GB youth would solve all of this (or one for U13, U15, U17) and would not take much to organise since the cadet ladder already exists as does the Junior and the Wroclaw list for England fencing. All it would really take is a commitment from the various "main" organisers that it is THE list and off we go.

    This would mean that organisers could seed away happilly without irate parents having any base to complain, our beloved little angels could see where they perched in the fencing world on a single internet page (not of course that children are competitive "HAHAHAHAHAHAHA" screeching manic laugh at those that believe this)
    and the NGOs could look down from their lofty towers periodically (or whenever they remember that this sport is built from young persons wanting to succeed) to see where their next youth team is likely to come from. It would also help with inviting people to come to NA days (children love being recognised & invited to parties) rather than hoping they might apply and indeed it might help the regional organisers in a similar manner.

    Is this too sensible a thought?
    just a daddy...and chauffeur

  12. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyranna's Father View Post
    If it ain't broke then dont fix it - there are more important things to do......for example:

    Since the Gods would like to build a base to develop young fencers toward 2024 (or 2028 or even 2032 by which time I may have lost interest in this forum) might I suggest that a good step would be to create a national ranking ladder for each relevent age group which could them be used by serious tournament organisers to seed their poules?

    This would possibly improve a number of them and make the organisers' jobs so much easier. There is no standard ranking, BYC uses one that seems to relate to results in the regional finals which may or may not reflect the ability of the fencers, Chris uses one for EE that only relates to his competitions (which isn't bad because so many top fencers enter but does allow bandits periodically to enter as rabbits) and LPJS, whilst a wonderful series of tournaments, rankings have only a tiny hold on reality since it is possible to get 25 points by being the only person to turn up and it does not take into account the difficulty of the competition.

    One ranking ladder for GB youth would solve all of this (or one for U13, U15, U17) and would not take much to organise since the cadet ladder already exists as does the Junior and the Wroclaw list for England fencing. All it would really take is a commitment from the various "main" organisers that it is THE list and off we go.

    This would mean that organisers could seed away happilly without irate parents having any base to complain, our beloved little angels could see where they perched in the fencing world on a single internet page (not of course that children are competitive "HAHAHAHAHAHAHA" screeching manic laugh at those that believe this)
    and the NGOs could look down from their lofty towers periodically (or whenever they remember that this sport is built from young persons wanting to succeed) to see where their next youth team is likely to come from. It would also help with inviting people to come to NA days (children love being recognised & invited to parties) rather than hoping they might apply and indeed it might help the regional organisers in a similar manner.

    Is this too sensible a thought?
    BYC uses a mixture of national Junior and Cadet rankings, LPJS, Premier Foil, Elite Epee, and last year's BYC results. About the only thing it doesn't use is results in the regional qualifier.
    Advocate extraordinaire to Beelzebub.

  13. #313
    Senior Member Cyranna's Father is a splendid one to beholdCyranna's Father is a splendid one to beholdCyranna's Father is a splendid one to beholdCyranna's Father is a splendid one to beholdCyranna's Father is a splendid one to beholdCyranna's Father is a splendid one to beholdCyranna's Father is a splendid one to behold Cyranna's Father's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkelephant View Post
    BYC uses a mixture of national Junior and Cadet rankings, LPJS, Premier Foil, Elite Epee, and last year's BYC results. About the only thing it doesn't use is results in the regional qualifier.
    Interesting........when I queried the seedings a couple of years ago that is what I was told by those in authority & I took them at their word. My apologies for repeating their error

    However the point of my post was about the creation of a definitive ranking list for youth not about the whys. wherefores & mysteries of current seeding methods & you dont seem to have commented on that. Given the information that you have shared in your brief posting I assume that a single list might be of considerable help?
    just a daddy...and chauffeur

  14. #314
    Member MrsB has much to be proud ofMrsB has much to be proud ofMrsB has much to be proud ofMrsB has much to be proud ofMrsB has much to be proud ofMrsB has much to be proud ofMrsB has much to be proud ofMrsB has much to be proud ofMrsB has much to be proud ofMrsB has much to be proud of
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    Quote Originally Posted by ED_R View Post
    It would be good to think that any amendments to the ranking system would be designed not just to better select the best fencers for the squads to go to the big internationals, but to provide a season wide program for all fencers that would raise the general standard of fencers, and not just the best.

    Not a thought through idea, i will admit, but if there were alternate selected internationals for fencers ranked above ninth place to learn from and as a replacement if you haven't qualified for the European selection circuit events?

    Isn't this suggestion a little bit like the long-ago abandoned development ranking?

  15. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyranna's Father View Post
    Interesting........when I queried the seedings a couple of years ago that is what I was told by those in authority & I took them at their word. My apologies for repeating their error

    However the point of my post was about the creation of a definitive ranking list for youth not about the whys. wherefores & mysteries of current seeding methods & you dont seem to have commented on that. Given the information that you have shared in your brief posting I assume that a single list might be of considerable help?
    Who did you ask? I've been doing the seedings for the BYC for about 8 years now.
    Advocate extraordinaire to Beelzebub.

  16. #316
    Senior Member Cyranna's Father is a splendid one to beholdCyranna's Father is a splendid one to beholdCyranna's Father is a splendid one to beholdCyranna's Father is a splendid one to beholdCyranna's Father is a splendid one to beholdCyranna's Father is a splendid one to beholdCyranna's Father is a splendid one to behold Cyranna's Father's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrsB View Post
    Isn't this suggestion a little bit like the long-ago abandoned development ranking?
    Irrationally abondoned, much missed & hopefully soon to be revived (if BF is serious about youth development)
    just a daddy...and chauffeur

  17. #317
    Senior Member Cyranna's Father is a splendid one to beholdCyranna's Father is a splendid one to beholdCyranna's Father is a splendid one to beholdCyranna's Father is a splendid one to beholdCyranna's Father is a splendid one to beholdCyranna's Father is a splendid one to beholdCyranna's Father is a splendid one to behold Cyranna's Father's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkelephant View Post
    Who did you ask? I've been doing the seedings for the BYC for about 8 years now.
    Mavis, I know who you are and what you do &, as you know, greatly appreciate your work. It wasn't you, but this is irrelevent to my post which was about the need for a central youth ranking list
    just a daddy...and chauffeur

  18. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyranna's Father View Post
    Mavis, I know who you are and what you do &, as you know, greatly appreciate your work. It wasn't you, but this is irrelevent to my post which was about the need for a central youth ranking list
    Just trying to find out who is giving out incorrect information so I can correct them.
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