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Thread: International results this weekend

  1. #21
    Chris Howser cesh_fencing has a reputation beyond reputecesh_fencing has a reputation beyond reputecesh_fencing has a reputation beyond reputecesh_fencing has a reputation beyond reputecesh_fencing has a reputation beyond reputecesh_fencing has a reputation beyond reputecesh_fencing has a reputation beyond reputecesh_fencing has a reputation beyond reputecesh_fencing has a reputation beyond reputecesh_fencing has a reputation beyond reputecesh_fencing has a reputation beyond repute cesh_fencing's Avatar
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    Girls final placings

    Rank Pts Name
    41 2 POWELL Elisabeth
    52 2 SUMMERS Francesca
    87 0 MACKINNON Leonora
    126 0 GREETHAM Sadie
    133 0 MOISEIWITSCH Nina
    161 0 CORMACK Eleanor
    179 0 JOWSEY Molly
    186 0 HARVEY Abigail Rose
    193 0 GOURLEY Sarah

    Total entry of 200..
    Oundle, Peterborough & Stamford Fencing

  2. #22
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    Boys Epee placings

    Rank Pts Name
    42 2 CURRAN JONES Tomas
    51 2 FREWIN James
    82 0 HUDSON Jack
    84 0 EDWARDS Thomas
    147 0 STEED Oliver
    169 0 GREALEY William
    205 0 BOLTON Matt
    212 0 RIDLEY Sam
    220 0 SANCHEZ-LETHEM Paul James

    Entry of 254!
    Oundle, Peterborough & Stamford Fencing

  3. #23
    Initiate jjcpf is on a distinguished road
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    Default Young Juniors L64

    Great results for Frankie Summers L64 (and still a cadet), also L64's from Tommy C-J and Lizzie Powell, both first year Juniors. I also noted from the FIE world ranking list (www.fie.ch/Competitions/Ranking.aspx) we have quite a number of Juniors, across all the weapons in the top 50. We compare reasonably ok with countries such as Germany and the USA. It is a shame that some of our most experienced Juniors were not able to go, as I know they have other demands on their time, with university studies, and trying to get into university etc.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjcpf View Post
    It is a shame that some of our most experienced Juniors were not able to go, as I know they have other demands on their time, with university studies, and trying to get into university etc.
    and are victims of a ranking/selection scheme which, in my opinion, is vastly out of step with the international rankings. How can the junior world number 18 (and senior number 4) only be ranked 31 in our domestic junior rankings? Or the junior world number 23 not feature at all? I know I'm slightly biased on club lines and that people will say 'well they should have done the selection events' but still, it's bizarre.

  5. #25
    Chris Howser cesh_fencing has a reputation beyond reputecesh_fencing has a reputation beyond reputecesh_fencing has a reputation beyond reputecesh_fencing has a reputation beyond reputecesh_fencing has a reputation beyond reputecesh_fencing has a reputation beyond reputecesh_fencing has a reputation beyond reputecesh_fencing has a reputation beyond reputecesh_fencing has a reputation beyond reputecesh_fencing has a reputation beyond reputecesh_fencing has a reputation beyond repute cesh_fencing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomA View Post
    and that people will say 'well they should have done the selection events'
    Yes.

    However if someone is allowed to attend International events having not competed at any selection events in the selection period, you should be happy they were given the opportunity to go to the Junior WC...
    Oundle, Peterborough & Stamford Fencing

  6. #26
    Senior Member JohnL has a reputation beyond reputeJohnL has a reputation beyond reputeJohnL has a reputation beyond reputeJohnL has a reputation beyond reputeJohnL has a reputation beyond reputeJohnL has a reputation beyond reputeJohnL has a reputation beyond reputeJohnL has a reputation beyond reputeJohnL has a reputation beyond reputeJohnL has a reputation beyond reputeJohnL has a reputation beyond repute
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjcpf View Post
    Great results for Frankie Summers L64 (and still a cadet), also L64's from Tommy C-J and Lizzie Powell, both first year Juniors. I also noted from the FIE world ranking list (www.fie.ch/Competitions/Ranking.aspx) we have quite a number of Juniors, across all the weapons in the top 50. We compare reasonably ok with countries such as Germany and the USA. It is a shame that some of our most experienced Juniors were not able to go, as I know they have other demands on their time, with university studies, and trying to get into university etc.
    Great positive post and I agree that Cadets getting 64's in junior competitions is a great start and good experience for them.

    However, you optimism and comparissons do not I'm afraid match reality. From the FIE site our Junior rankings indicate;

    ME - 22, 26, 45 (The next highest is 155)
    WE - Highest rank is 171
    MS - 30, 50 (The next highest is 170)
    WS - 13 (The next highest is 118)

    This doesn't compare "Well" with any of the nations we want to be competing with and certainly does not show the strength in depth your post appears to indicate.

    I also ask the question raised by Keith Smith. "Why weren't the MF/WF in Bratislava." This event is one of the top Junior events on the circuit and the individuals/countries represented is a who's who of the top fencers in the world. In MF our fencers have rankings of 17, 34, 39, and 74, with a WF at 29. It isn't as if no-one knew this was a big tournament!!!

    As for your, "It is a shame that some of our most experienced Juniors were not able to go, as I know they have other demands on their time, with university studies, and trying to get into university etc", do you think other fencers of the same age don't have the same pressures on their time. Of course they do. Poor excuse for fencers who say they want to be world class!!!
    JohnL

  7. #27
    Chris Howser cesh_fencing has a reputation beyond reputecesh_fencing has a reputation beyond reputecesh_fencing has a reputation beyond reputecesh_fencing has a reputation beyond reputecesh_fencing has a reputation beyond reputecesh_fencing has a reputation beyond reputecesh_fencing has a reputation beyond reputecesh_fencing has a reputation beyond reputecesh_fencing has a reputation beyond reputecesh_fencing has a reputation beyond reputecesh_fencing has a reputation beyond repute cesh_fencing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnL View Post
    I also ask the question raised by Keith Smith. "Why weren't the MF/WF in Bratislava." This event is one of the top Junior events on the circuit and the individuals/countries represented is a who's who of the top fencers in the world. In MF our fencers have rankings of 17, 34, 39, and 74, with a WF at 29. It isn't as if no-one knew this was a big tournament!
    As I suspect there are only a certain number of events that count for GB selection, maybe foil has decided to avoid this event as it was expected to be a very high standard across all weapons?

    No point selecting events that make fencers chances of reaching qualifying standard even harder than they need to be, even though going fo experience for those top fencers would surely be a good thing..
    Oundle, Peterborough & Stamford Fencing

  8. #28
    Senior Member JohnL has a reputation beyond reputeJohnL has a reputation beyond reputeJohnL has a reputation beyond reputeJohnL has a reputation beyond reputeJohnL has a reputation beyond reputeJohnL has a reputation beyond reputeJohnL has a reputation beyond reputeJohnL has a reputation beyond reputeJohnL has a reputation beyond reputeJohnL has a reputation beyond reputeJohnL has a reputation beyond repute
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    Quote Originally Posted by cesh_fencing View Post
    As I suspect there are only a certain number of events that count for GB selection, maybe foil has decided to avoid this event as it was expected to be a very high standard across all weapons?

    No point selecting events that make fencers chances of reaching qualifying standard even harder than they need to be, even though going fo experience for those top fencers would surely be a good thing..
    Are you kidding me!!!!

    We have 4 foilists ranked in the top 40 in the world and Bratislava is EXACTLY the sort of tournament they should be going to. With top 40 ranking they should look to compete with the best in the world at every possible opportunity. Looks like all the European countries with high aspirations thought so.
    JohnL

  9. #29
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    Bratislava was replaced by Luxembourg as the first JWC of the season. Often in the past a number of the junior men especially have gone out to non-nominated events for experience and to build up FIE points. I can't say why that has not happened this year. I presume however that Alex T is still injured.
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  10. #30
    Senior Member Hungry Hippo has much to be proud ofHungry Hippo has much to be proud ofHungry Hippo has much to be proud ofHungry Hippo has much to be proud ofHungry Hippo has much to be proud ofHungry Hippo has much to be proud ofHungry Hippo has much to be proud ofHungry Hippo has much to be proud ofHungry Hippo has much to be proud of Hungry Hippo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnL View Post
    ........................ do you think other OVERSEAS fencers of the same age don't have the same pressures on their time. Of course they do. Poor excuse for fencers who say they want to be world class!!!
    Presume you were referring to those competitors not from GB in your post? My response would be that education in this country will always come first - no one is going to make a living out of fencing, unless they branch out as a coach or supplier for instance, and that takes time.

    Where the comparison is weak is that many countries will make educational allowances for those good enough, and if they continue to prosper as a competitor, will keep on supporting them such that they are full-time fencers. That will never happen in the UK.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foilling Around View Post
    Bratislava was replaced by Luxembourg as the first JWC of the season. Often in the past a number of the junior men especially have gone out to non-nominated events for experience and to build up FIE points. I can't say why that has not happened this year. I presume however that Alex T is still injured.
    Is this something that is allowed in Junior A Grades, knew it was ok for cadets but wasn't sure re Juniors. We were planning on Senior Satellites but maybe an non-nominated Junior might be an option if there are any available that are easily accessible.

    If so, do you know the mechanism. I have sent email to BF regarding satellites but to date have not had a response, shame but no real surprise there.

    Thx

  12. #32
    Senior Member Danum has a spectacular aura aboutDanum has a spectacular aura aboutDanum has a spectacular aura about
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    Have a look on FIE website to see if there any.

  13. #33
    Senior Member JohnL has a reputation beyond reputeJohnL has a reputation beyond reputeJohnL has a reputation beyond reputeJohnL has a reputation beyond reputeJohnL has a reputation beyond reputeJohnL has a reputation beyond reputeJohnL has a reputation beyond reputeJohnL has a reputation beyond reputeJohnL has a reputation beyond reputeJohnL has a reputation beyond reputeJohnL has a reputation beyond repute
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hungry Hippo View Post
    Presume you were referring to those competitors not from GB in your post? My response would be that education in this country will always come first - no one is going to make a living out of fencing, unless they branch out as a coach or supplier for instance, and that takes time.

    Where the comparison is weak is that many countries will make educational allowances for those good enough, and if they continue to prosper as a competitor, will keep on supporting them such that they are full-time fencers. That will never happen in the UK.
    Where I might possibly agree with you is if you look at the youngsters from Russia, Poland, Hungary. However I don't know what happens there.

    But if you look at the list of entries, there were fencers from, France, Italy, Germany,Denmark, Austria, Belgium, Sweden, Turkey, Netherlands, Portugal, and the USA, all of whom are in the same boat as the British when it comes to balancing their personal lives, education, and fencing. Theirs showed up, our didn't.
    JohnL

  14. #34
    Senior Member ED_R has a reputation beyond reputeED_R has a reputation beyond reputeED_R has a reputation beyond reputeED_R has a reputation beyond reputeED_R has a reputation beyond reputeED_R has a reputation beyond reputeED_R has a reputation beyond reputeED_R has a reputation beyond reputeED_R has a reputation beyond reputeED_R has a reputation beyond reputeED_R has a reputation beyond repute
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    So do you think the Brits are less committed, or simply making a judgement about what is in their best interests just like everyone else, John?
    Edward Peck

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by ED_R View Post
    So do you think the Brits are less committed, or simply making a judgement about what is in their best interests just like everyone else, John?
    I think it's probably a combination of any number of things;
    • A general apathy to physical activity. This has been bred by the government, transfered into the school system, and accepted by parents
    • A lack of commitment on the part of both children and parents (For whatever reason)
    • An acceptance of the mediocre as opposed to a genuine desire to excel
    • The lack of clubs where a high level of commitment and practice is the accepted norm

    I maintain, that if you create a club where hard work, commitment, and enthusiasm is the expected norm, it becomes infectious, creating an atmosphere where exceling becomes easy if you're found to have a talent. Far too often there are mediocre clubs, with mediocre coaches, creating a medocre fencer, with the fencers being told that they're good. By the time they then go out into the big wide world of truly good fencers and get stomped on, it's too late to change the work ethic they've become accustomed to.
    JohnL

  16. #36
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    Default WE

    Far be it for me to say but I will.

    For what ever the reason, two of the better JW epeeist, Radford and Chang (both medal zoned in JWC whilst cadets, Chang Bratislava, Radford at the Worlds and selected for Singapore Junior Olympics) did not really compete on the Junior circuit last year and are generally not available for selection this year.

    Running down a ranking list and declaring / opining about the quality is somewhat ironic.
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    Tubby is now totally miffed and has chucked it all in.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tubby View Post
    Radford and Chang (both medal zoned in JWC whilst cadets, Chang Bratislava, Radford at the Worlds and selected for Singapore Junior Olympics)
    Feel some humble pie coming my way as I think Amy's L8 may have been at the Cadet Worlds.
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    Tubby is now totally miffed and has chucked it all in.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tubby View Post
    Feel some humble pie coming my way as I think Amy's L8 may have been at the Cadet Worlds.
    Nope, was right first time. Lobyna L8.
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    Tubby is now totally miffed and has chucked it all in.

  19. #39
    Senior Member ED_R has a reputation beyond reputeED_R has a reputation beyond reputeED_R has a reputation beyond reputeED_R has a reputation beyond reputeED_R has a reputation beyond reputeED_R has a reputation beyond reputeED_R has a reputation beyond reputeED_R has a reputation beyond reputeED_R has a reputation beyond reputeED_R has a reputation beyond reputeED_R has a reputation beyond repute
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnL View Post
    I think it's probably a combination of any number of things;
    • A general apathy to physical activity. This has been bred by the government, transferred into the school system, and accepted by parents
    • A lack of commitment on the part of both children and parents (For whatever reason)
    • An acceptance of the mediocre as opposed to a genuine desire to excel
    • The lack of clubs where a high level of commitment and practice is the accepted norm
    • A general apathy to physical activity. This has been bred by the government, transferred into the school system, and accepted by parents

    Unlikely among our top fencers, I feel. There is an anti-competitive element in some schools started by teachers with political motivations - something that has happened since I was at school. But the fencers I meet aren't really apathetic about physical activity. If anything the recognition that strength and conditioning is important seems to me to be growing among our fencers (dare I say it, but this is an achievement of the now hibernating National Academy).
    • A lack of commitment on the part of both children and parents (For whatever reason)

    The parents and fencers strike me as being highly committed. For whatever reason IMO that drops off very rapidly at around the junior age groups, and the commitment goes into other activities.
    • An acceptance of the mediocre as opposed to a genuine desire to excel

    I don't recognise that in our fencers at all. I think they want to win as much as anyone else.
    • The lack of clubs where a high level of commitment and practice is the accepted norm

    Maybe. But I see some coaches who are certainly committed, and wholeheartedly want to achieve success, and would desperately like to "break through".

    It surely is a cultural thing - but not British indolence IMO. Perhaps its more about young committed fencers selecting the activities that they believe will lead to success.

    We need to see a really successful British fencer make it - that would make it easier for the rest to believe in the path, and follow. Just think how many young epeeists were motivated by Jon Willis, for example.
    Last edited by ED_R; -20th November 2012 at 16:09.
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  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by ED_R View Post
    [LIST]
    We need to see a really successful British fencer make it and be supported by the NGB through their success, not discarded when it "suits"- that would make it easier for the rest to believe in the path, and follow. Just think how many young epeeists were motivated by Jon Willis, for example.
    Agree absolutly but also with an addition!

    E.g. what support is the likes of Phil Marsh getting at the moment?
    Last edited by pavski; -20th November 2012 at 17:06. Reason: added mr marsh

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