International results this weekend

[cesh_fencing]

Girls final placings

Rank Pts Name
41 2 POWELL Elisabeth
52 2 SUMMERS Francesca
87 0 MACKINNON Leonora
126 0 GREETHAM Sadie
133 0 MOISEIWITSCH Nina
161 0 CORMACK Eleanor
179 0 JOWSEY Molly
186 0 HARVEY Abigail Rose
193 0 GOURLEY Sarah

Total entry of 200..

[cesh_fencing]

Boys Epee placings

Rank Pts Name
42 2 CURRAN JONES Tomas
51 2 FREWIN James
82 0 HUDSON Jack
84 0 EDWARDS Thomas
147 0 STEED Oliver
169 0 GREALEY William
205 0 BOLTON Matt
212 0 RIDLEY Sam
220 0 SANCHEZ-LETHEM Paul James

Entry of 254!

[jjcpf]

Great results for Frankie Summers L64 (and still a cadet), also L64's from Tommy C-J and Lizzie Powell, both first year Juniors. I also noted from the FIE world ranking list (www.fie.ch/Competitions/Ranking.aspx) we have quite a number of Juniors, across all the weapons in the top 50. We compare reasonably ok with countries such as Germany and the USA. It is a shame that some of our most experienced Juniors were not able to go, as I know they have other demands on their time, with university studies, and trying to get into university etc.

[TomA]

It is a shame that some of our most experienced Juniors were not able to go, as I know they have other demands on their time, with university studies, and trying to get into university etc.

and are victims of a ranking/selection scheme which, in my opinion, is vastly out of step with the international rankings. How can the junior world number 18 (and senior number 4) only be ranked 31 in our domestic junior rankings? Or the junior world number 23 not feature at all? I know I'm slightly biased on club lines and that people will say 'well they should have done the selection events' but still, it's bizarre.

[cesh_fencing]

and that people will say 'well they should have done the selection events'

Yes.

However if someone is allowed to attend International events having not competed at any selection events in the selection period, you should be happy they were given the opportunity to go to the Junior WC...

[JohnL]

Great results for Frankie Summers L64 (and still a cadet), also L64's from Tommy C-J and Lizzie Powell, both first year Juniors. I also noted from the FIE world ranking list (www.fie.ch/Competitions/Ranking.aspx) we have quite a number of Juniors, across all the weapons in the top 50. We compare reasonably ok with countries such as Germany and the USA. It is a shame that some of our most experienced Juniors were not able to go, as I know they have other demands on their time, with university studies, and trying to get into university etc.

Great positive post and I agree that Cadets getting 64's in junior competitions is a great start and good experience for them.

However, you optimism and comparissons do not I'm afraid match reality. From the FIE site our Junior rankings indicate;

ME - 22, 26, 45 (The next highest is 155)
WE - Highest rank is 171
MS - 30, 50 (The next highest is 170)
WS - 13 (The next highest is 118)

This doesn't compare "Well" with any of the nations we want to be competing with and certainly does not show the strength in depth your post appears to indicate.

I also ask the question raised by Keith Smith. "Why weren't the MF/WF in Bratislava." This event is one of the top Junior events on the circuit and the individuals/countries represented is a who's who of the top fencers in the world. In MF our fencers have rankings of 17, 34, 39, and 74, with a WF at 29. It isn't as if no-one knew this was a big tournament!!!

As for your, "It is a shame that some of our most experienced Juniors were not able to go, as I know they have other demands on their time, with university studies, and trying to get into university etc", do you think other fencers of the same age don't have the same pressures on their time. Of course they do. Poor excuse for fencers who say they want to be world class!!!

[cesh_fencing]

I also ask the question raised by Keith Smith. "Why weren't the MF/WF in Bratislava." This event is one of the top Junior events on the circuit and the individuals/countries represented is a who's who of the top fencers in the world. In MF our fencers have rankings of 17, 34, 39, and 74, with a WF at 29. It isn't as if no-one knew this was a big tournament!

As I suspect there are only a certain number of events that count for GB selection, maybe foil has decided to avoid this event as it was expected to be a very high standard across all weapons?

No point selecting events that make fencers chances of reaching qualifying standard even harder than they need to be, even though going fo experience for those top fencers would surely be a good thing..

[JohnL]

As I suspect there are only a certain number of events that count for GB selection, maybe foil has decided to avoid this event as it was expected to be a very high standard across all weapons?

No point selecting events that make fencers chances of reaching qualifying standard even harder than they need to be, even though going fo experience for those top fencers would surely be a good thing..

Are you kidding me!!!!

We have 4 foilists ranked in the top 40 in the world and Bratislava is EXACTLY the sort of tournament they should be going to. With top 40 ranking they should look to compete with the best in the world at every possible opportunity. Looks like all the European countries with high aspirations thought so.

[Foilling Around]

Bratislava was replaced by Luxembourg as the first JWC of the season. Often in the past a number of the junior men especially have gone out to non-nominated events for experience and to build up FIE points. I can't say why that has not happened this year. I presume however that Alex T is still injured.

[Hungry Hippo]

........................ do you think other OVERSEAS fencers of the same age don't have the same pressures on their time. Of course they do. Poor excuse for fencers who say they want to be world class!!!

Presume you were referring to those competitors not from GB in your post? My response would be that education in this country will always come first - no one is going to make a living out of fencing, unless they branch out as a coach or supplier for instance, and that takes time.

Where the comparison is weak is that many countries will make educational allowances for those good enough, and if they continue to prosper as a competitor, will keep on supporting them such that they are full-time fencers. That will never happen in the UK.

[jmayle]

Bratislava was replaced by Luxembourg as the first JWC of the season. Often in the past a number of the junior men especially have gone out to non-nominated events for experience and to build up FIE points. I can't say why that has not happened this year. I presume however that Alex T is still injured.

Is this something that is allowed in Junior A Grades, knew it was ok for cadets but wasn't sure re Juniors. We were planning on Senior Satellites but maybe an non-nominated Junior might be an option if there are any available that are easily accessible.

If so, do you know the mechanism. I have sent email to BF regarding satellites but to date have not had a response, shame but no real surprise there.

Thx

[Danum]

Have a look on FIE website to see if there any.

[JohnL]

Presume you were referring to those competitors not from GB in your post? My response would be that education in this country will always come first - no one is going to make a living out of fencing, unless they branch out as a coach or supplier for instance, and that takes time.

Where the comparison is weak is that many countries will make educational allowances for those good enough, and if they continue to prosper as a competitor, will keep on supporting them such that they are full-time fencers. That will never happen in the UK.

Where I might possibly agree with you is if you look at the youngsters from Russia, Poland, Hungary. However I don't know what happens there.

But if you look at the list of entries, there were fencers from, France, Italy, Germany,Denmark, Austria, Belgium, Sweden, Turkey, Netherlands, Portugal, and the USA, all of whom are in the same boat as the British when it comes to balancing their personal lives, education, and fencing. Theirs showed up, our didn't.

[ED_R]

So do you think the Brits are less committed, or simply making a judgement about what is in their best interests just like everyone else, John?

[JohnL]

So do you think the Brits are less committed, or simply making a judgement about what is in their best interests just like everyone else, John?

I think it's probably a combination of any number of things;

• A general apathy to physical activity. This has been bred by the government, transfered into the school system, and accepted by parents

• A lack of commitment on the part of both children and parents (For whatever reason)

• An acceptance of the mediocre as opposed to a genuine desire to excel

• The lack of clubs where a high level of commitment and practice is the accepted norm

I maintain, that if you create a club where hard work, commitment, and enthusiasm is the expected norm, it becomes infectious, creating an atmosphere where exceling becomes easy if you're found to have a talent. Far too often there are mediocre clubs, with mediocre coaches, creating a medocre fencer, with the fencers being told that they're good. By the time they then go out into the big wide world of truly good fencers and get stomped on, it's too late to change the work ethic they've become accustomed to.

[Tubby]

Far be it for me to say but I will.

For what ever the reason, two of the better JW epeeist, Radford and Chang (both medal zoned in JWC whilst cadets, Chang Bratislava, Radford at the Worlds and selected for Singapore Junior Olympics) did not really compete on the Junior circuit last year and are generally not available for selection this year.

Running down a ranking list and declaring / opining about the quality is somewhat ironic.

[Tubby]

Radford and Chang (both medal zoned in JWC whilst cadets, Chang Bratislava, Radford at the Worlds and selected for Singapore Junior Olympics)

Feel some humble pie coming my way as I think Amy's L8 may have been at the Cadet Worlds.

[Tubby]

Feel some humble pie coming my way as I think Amy's L8 may have been at the Cadet Worlds.

Nope, was right first time. Lobyna L8.

[ED_R]

I think it's probably a combination of any number of things;

• A general apathy to physical activity. This has been bred by the government, transferred into the school system, and accepted by parents

• A lack of commitment on the part of both children and parents (For whatever reason)

• An acceptance of the mediocre as opposed to a genuine desire to excel

• The lack of clubs where a high level of commitment and practice is the accepted norm

• A general apathy to physical activity. This has been bred by the government, transferred into the school system, and accepted by parents

Unlikely among our top fencers, I feel. There is an anti-competitive element in some schools started by teachers with political motivations - something that has happened since I was at school. But the fencers I meet aren't really apathetic about physical activity. If anything the recognition that strength and conditioning is important seems to me to be growing among our fencers (dare I say it, but this is an achievement of the now hibernating National Academy).

• A lack of commitment on the part of both children and parents (For whatever reason)

The parents and fencers strike me as being highly committed. For whatever reason IMO that drops off very rapidly at around the junior age groups, and the commitment goes into other activities.

• An acceptance of the mediocre as opposed to a genuine desire to excel

I don't recognise that in our fencers at all. I think they want to win as much as anyone else.

• The lack of clubs where a high level of commitment and practice is the accepted norm

Maybe. But I see some coaches who are certainly committed, and wholeheartedly want to achieve success, and would desperately like to "break through".

It surely is a cultural thing - but not British indolence IMO. Perhaps its more about young committed fencers selecting the activities that they believe will lead to success.

We need to see a really successful British fencer make it - that would make it easier for the rest to believe in the path, and follow. Just think how many young epeeists were motivated by Jon Willis, for example.

[pavski]

[LIST]
We need to see a really successful British fencer make it and be supported by the NGB through their success, not discarded when it "suits"- that would make it easier for the rest to believe in the path, and follow. Just think how many young epeeists were motivated by Jon Willis, for example.

Agree absolutly but also with an addition!

E.g. what support is the likes of Phil Marsh getting at the moment?