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Thread: BFA numbers, why not rankings

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    Senior Member bafco is a glorious beacon of lightbafco is a glorious beacon of lightbafco is a glorious beacon of lightbafco is a glorious beacon of lightbafco is a glorious beacon of lightbafco is a glorious beacon of light bafco's Avatar
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    Default BFA numbers, why not rankings

    I have been using the feature on the BFA web site that allows the checking of BFA numbers online. Very useful it is, nods thanks to the BFA.

    Wouldn't it be nice if we could do the same with rankings, upload a CSV containing BFA numbers and names and get a CSV file back containing a matching set of rankings, both points and positions? For those of us using Fencing Time this could be imported direct.
    If we take in our hand any volume; of divinity or school metaphysics, for instance; let us ask, Does it contain any abstract reasoning concerning quantity or number? No. Does it contain any experimental reasoning concerning matter of fact and existence? No. Commit it then to the flames: for it can contain nothing but sophistry and illusion.

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    Moderator Gav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond repute Gav's Avatar
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    Not only that but the rankings - which is just a mathematecal calculation - could be done off a properly formatted input (from Fencing Time rsults or whatever) that the organisers upload after their competition.

    That way we could guarantee that the results look and feel consistent. The ranking coordinators would have much less hassle in their lives.

    Fencers could be provided with a portal through which they could see their performance.

    It might even be possible use such a tool when assessing fencers to send abroad (what are their results trending like? How does this guy compare against that guy? etc) - see www.nahouw.net.
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    Senior Member Cottontail has a spectacular aura aboutCottontail has a spectacular aura aboutCottontail has a spectacular aura about Cottontail's Avatar
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    bafco "I have been using the feature on the BFA web site that allows the checking of BFA numbers online. Very useful it is, nods thanks to the BFA".

    I have drawn a blank searching the BFA website for how to access this facility.(No surprise there).

    We are running a county competition this weekend and have had to ask fencers to bring proof of current membership.

    How can we get access to this list?

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    Senior Member Rids has a spectacular aura aboutRids has a spectacular aura aboutRids has a spectacular aura about
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    Contact Kim at Head Office. She can help.

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    Initiate GYWFC will become famous soon enough
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    If you email BFA Head Office they can give you log in details for the Competition organisers portal,from which you can enter members bfa numbers and the portal confirms if there membership us up-to-date or not.

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    Senior Member BigPappaBear is a glorious beacon of lightBigPappaBear is a glorious beacon of lightBigPappaBear is a glorious beacon of lightBigPappaBear is a glorious beacon of lightBigPappaBear is a glorious beacon of lightBigPappaBear is a glorious beacon of light
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    I did here rumour of such an idea, in fact I'm sure its in the ranking coordinators job description about a single ranking system.

    Think there are some technical surprises on the creation of NIF if you have an international fencer entered to the event but agree with Gav the majority of such a system is pretty straight forward.
    Risk a lot and wear glasses

  7. #7
    Senior Member bafco is a glorious beacon of lightbafco is a glorious beacon of lightbafco is a glorious beacon of lightbafco is a glorious beacon of lightbafco is a glorious beacon of lightbafco is a glorious beacon of light bafco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    Not only that but the rankings - which is just a mathematecal calculation - could be done off a properly formatted input (from Fencing Time rsults or whatever) that the organisers upload after their competition.
    *Cough*, not to blow my own trumpet (though as my mother used to say, if you don't no bugger else will), but we run a series of competitions for school level fencers in the NW. There is a ranking scheme, you can look at a typical example of a set of rankings, clicking on one of the names will give you a list of competitions the person took part in, the position and the points earned.
    If we take in our hand any volume; of divinity or school metaphysics, for instance; let us ask, Does it contain any abstract reasoning concerning quantity or number? No. Does it contain any experimental reasoning concerning matter of fact and existence? No. Commit it then to the flames: for it can contain nothing but sophistry and illusion.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by bafco View Post
    *Cough*, not to blow my own trumpet (though as my mother used to say, if you don't no bugger else will), but we run a series of competitions for school level fencers in the NW. There is a ranking scheme, you can look at a typical example of a set of rankings, clicking on one of the names will give you a list of competitions the person took part in, the position and the points earned.
    Warning: more own-trumpet-blowing: fencingarchive.net - license numbers would be massively useful here too.

  9. #9
    Senior Member bafco is a glorious beacon of lightbafco is a glorious beacon of lightbafco is a glorious beacon of lightbafco is a glorious beacon of lightbafco is a glorious beacon of lightbafco is a glorious beacon of light bafco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattc View Post
    Warning: more own-trumpet-blowing: fencingarchive.net - license numbers would be massively useful here too.
    Yes, excellent site. I agree with you about licence numbers as well.
    If we take in our hand any volume; of divinity or school metaphysics, for instance; let us ask, Does it contain any abstract reasoning concerning quantity or number? No. Does it contain any experimental reasoning concerning matter of fact and existence? No. Commit it then to the flames: for it can contain nothing but sophistry and illusion.

  10. #10
    Moderator Gav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond repute Gav's Avatar
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    You see it's when I see stuff like this that I feel my teeth grit. Considering the talent in this community we should have a good website and automated rankings by now.
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  11. #11

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    Automated ranking are fairly straight-forward, the difficulty is in getting results in reliably (i.e. with consistently-spelt names). Guess what - some form of openly available unique reference number would fix this...

  12. #12
    Moderator Gav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond repute Gav's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattc View Post
    Automated ranking are fairly straight-forward, the difficulty is in getting results in reliably (i.e. with consistently-spelt names). Guess what - some form of openly available unique reference number would fix this...
    This is the sort of statement I make daily in my day job.
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  13. #13
    Senior Member bafco is a glorious beacon of lightbafco is a glorious beacon of lightbafco is a glorious beacon of lightbafco is a glorious beacon of lightbafco is a glorious beacon of lightbafco is a glorious beacon of light bafco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    You see it's when I see stuff like this that I feel my teeth grit. Considering the talent in this community we should have a good website and automated rankings by now.
    It is something I looked at a while back, at that point there were some ambiguities in the ranking scheme and a few corner cases that were messy. Whether this has been changed I don't know, it has been a time since I looked.

    I think it is a case of actually building the better mousetrap and then offering it to the powers that be rather than attempting approaching all the interested parties and trying to get a consensus view that would end up pleasing nobody.
    If we take in our hand any volume; of divinity or school metaphysics, for instance; let us ask, Does it contain any abstract reasoning concerning quantity or number? No. Does it contain any experimental reasoning concerning matter of fact and existence? No. Commit it then to the flames: for it can contain nothing but sophistry and illusion.

  14. #14
    Senior Member bafco is a glorious beacon of lightbafco is a glorious beacon of lightbafco is a glorious beacon of lightbafco is a glorious beacon of lightbafco is a glorious beacon of lightbafco is a glorious beacon of light bafco's Avatar
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    Default Fencing Time Manual

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    Not only that but the rankings - which is just a mathematecal calculation - could be done off a properly formatted input (from Fencing Time rsults or whatever) that the organisers upload after their competition.
    Incidentally, I am currently writing a "Britishised" manual for Fencing Time. If anyone would be interested in a copy to critique then drop me a PM. I should have it finished before Christmas, at which time a crudely formatted Word version will be available. Once I am happy with the text I will feed it to a proper publishing package.
    If we take in our hand any volume; of divinity or school metaphysics, for instance; let us ask, Does it contain any abstract reasoning concerning quantity or number? No. Does it contain any experimental reasoning concerning matter of fact and existence? No. Commit it then to the flames: for it can contain nothing but sophistry and illusion.

  15. #15
    Moderator Gav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond repute Gav's Avatar
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    Well, back in the bad old days I lined up a developer and contacted the BFA with an offer to construct a tournament portal. The idea being to give organisers a way to take entries (and cash) and BFA to do all of the mundane ranking stuff as automatically as possible. It would have looked a lot like Matc's site. But they weren't interested back then. It's worth doing.
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    Senior Member BigPappaBear is a glorious beacon of lightBigPappaBear is a glorious beacon of lightBigPappaBear is a glorious beacon of lightBigPappaBear is a glorious beacon of lightBigPappaBear is a glorious beacon of lightBigPappaBear is a glorious beacon of light
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    BAFCO - I'd be interested in an "britishised" fencing time...
    Risk a lot and wear glasses

  17. #17
    Senior Member bafco is a glorious beacon of lightbafco is a glorious beacon of lightbafco is a glorious beacon of lightbafco is a glorious beacon of lightbafco is a glorious beacon of lightbafco is a glorious beacon of light bafco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    It's worth doing.
    Yes it is, how do we do it?

    I would suggest we could get as far as a demonstrator project with the ability to upload data from a single source (Engarde would probably be best) into an appropriate database and to calculate rankings. If the application used an MVC pattern then we could also provide an abstract view that could then have a concrete views that fitted into a rankings portal or the BFA web site rankings pages.
    If we take in our hand any volume; of divinity or school metaphysics, for instance; let us ask, Does it contain any abstract reasoning concerning quantity or number? No. Does it contain any experimental reasoning concerning matter of fact and existence? No. Commit it then to the flames: for it can contain nothing but sophistry and illusion.

  18. #18
    Senior Member BigPappaBear is a glorious beacon of lightBigPappaBear is a glorious beacon of lightBigPappaBear is a glorious beacon of lightBigPappaBear is a glorious beacon of lightBigPappaBear is a glorious beacon of lightBigPappaBear is a glorious beacon of light
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    csv/txt results might be easier as I think all the fencing tools should be able to output in that. That way you're not forcing people to admit to having illegal versions of engarde!

    Ideally it needs to be able to link to the membership database so that the data is suitaby stored in one location as opposed to spread accross dispirate systems. Cutting down maintenance...

    This could rapidly become "geek" corner...
    Risk a lot and wear glasses

  19. #19
    Senior Member bafco is a glorious beacon of lightbafco is a glorious beacon of lightbafco is a glorious beacon of lightbafco is a glorious beacon of lightbafco is a glorious beacon of lightbafco is a glorious beacon of light bafco's Avatar
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    Default Hangs head in shame

    I had forgotten that long ago I had written perl scripts to read the Excel spreadsheets for foil and epee and the web pages for sabre and to output CSV files. The formats have changed slightly so I have had to do some minor modifications, but they all now seem to work.

    If anyone wants copies then drop me a PM.
    If we take in our hand any volume; of divinity or school metaphysics, for instance; let us ask, Does it contain any abstract reasoning concerning quantity or number? No. Does it contain any experimental reasoning concerning matter of fact and existence? No. Commit it then to the flames: for it can contain nothing but sophistry and illusion.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by bafco View Post
    I had forgotten that long ago I had written perl scripts to read the Excel spreadsheets for foil and epee and the web pages for sabre and to output CSV files. The formats have changed slightly so I have had to do some minor modifications, but they all now seem to work.

    If anyone wants copies then drop me a PM.
    In all seriousness, if you're happy for them to be open:
    GitHub

    About time you got yourself an account ;-)

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