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Thread: can i claim the point?

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkelephant View Post
    If you look at the slo-mo, you can see that he didn't maintain the line - the point deviated from the target. It's almost impossible to keep the line on the end of a lunge, unless the lunge is very slow, or it's a set piece for a video tutorial.
    Looking at the video replay, I would have awarded the hit to Aspromonte. Although the point did move away from thr target, I believe that Kruse attempted to take the blade in sixte and Aspromonte deceived this attempt.

    Graham

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by graham paul View Post
    Looking at the video replay, I would have awarded the hit to Aspromonte. Although the point did move away from thr target, I believe that Kruse attempted to take the blade in sixte and Aspromonte deceived this attempt.

    Graham
    Please don't referee.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by riposteinprime View Post
    Please don't referee.
    riposteinprime,

    How many European and 'A' grade finals have you refereed?

    Instead of trying to be funny it would be better to discuss the actual hit. I would be quite prepared to argue the hit should go either way. Aspromonte does bend his arm after the end of his attack, which looses right of way, and this is probably more significant than Mavis’s concern about his point moving. However it could also be said that Kruse tries to take the blade, which Aspromonte manages to evade, giving him the right of way, it is a question of interpretation and the camera view is not at a very good angle to be certain.

    Graham

  4. #24
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    I'm not trying creep to our resident board member, but I agree with Graham. The Italian does twitch the arm at the end of the attack. I would say however that it is back in line before RK takes up the action. There does appear to be an attempt to take the blade which is evaded.

    The hand gestures from the video ref seem to indicate his problem was with the point not staying in line, as Mavis said, so I can only assume that they did not regard RK as attempting to take.

    Incidentally there were a lot of decisions that did not make sense to me at 2012. Many which I saw in Slomo and should have been reversed but were not. At one point there were 6 point out of 8 in a team match with which I disagreed. Now I am not an FIE referee, but I am not that bad and I usually agree with most of what I see at the top level.

    PS - RIP, Don't get in an experience contest with Graham he will beat you hands down.
    Qualified National Academy AASE Assessor
    Father of a Scotland Junior Commonwealths Fencer and a Senior Commonwealth Team Foil Gold Medallist

  5. #25
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    Wouldn't say he's searching tbh just from the looks it seems its a simple attack indirect, personal opinion.
    With the line the problem is the point leaving the target which is quite significant, all big movement with the shoulder which would have been quite obvious to the ref at that close range. The arm twitch is more an artefact of the slow motion which is something to bear in mind since it makes minute twitches overly obvious

  6. #26
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    At full speed it seems Aspromonte has a reasonable case. I then watched it lots of times at slow-mo and it seems very clear that Kruse does not attempt a search. Aspromonte, after his first attack fails, immediately sgnals his intention to affect a derobement (the first attempt is the 'wobble'). My cynically view is that his primary intention is to signal this to the referee. In the end he actually derobes thin air (I realise this is the definintion of a derobement) as Kruse's reposte is outside the remit of Aspromonte's sixte. In effect Aspromonte manages to evade Kruse's blade but that's not the same as a derobement (which demands a search). The only grounds for Aspromonte, therefore, is that Aspromonte immediately establishes a line after his attack (unlikely) or that Kruse pause gives Aspromonte the opportunity to re-establish a line. It's fairly clear, however, that even the Italian is not basing his claim on either interpretation (look how he mimics the action after the call).

    It's not insignificant that those making the call looked at it in better quality and with more experience.

  7. #27
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    Default Tough call ...

    ITA attacks almost short lunge like(?), on foot fall attack finishes (ref thinks?), ITA establishes line, GB initiates attack without taking ITA blade (this is the dodgey bit) but ITA moves the point could be viewed as a renewal (?), GB hits. If Aspromonte had moved the point there might have been a different call. The refs are giving this by thinking of the spirit of the sport.
    “Don't poke that thing at me!"

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