Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 41 to 58 of 58

Thread: Birmingham International Open 2017

  1. #41
    Mavis Thornton pinkelephant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Lytham St Annes, Lancs
    Posts
    6,013

    Default

    The worst one I had was a bug in Engarde 8.16, which simply chucked a fencer out of the repechage. It just left a gap, with 15 fencers in that tableau instead of 16. I had to run two rounds by hand while I figured out what the hell it had done. I have never used 8.16 since - 9 is pretty robust, much more powerful, and allows output to the web even when you haven't got access to your own website.
    Advocate extraordinaire to Beelzebub.

  2. #42
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    The Kingdom of Fife
    Posts
    1,079

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnL View Post
    • Entry deadline with regular entry fee about 6 weeks before the tournament

    • "Late" entry deadline about 4 weeks before the tournament. The cost is triple the regular entry fee.

    • Anything after that and you're sh!t outta luck

    • When you enter, you know the day your event will take place but not the time. Times are notified after the regular entry deadline after the organizers have worked out the #'s and logistics
    Always thought this would be a greatly beneficial system to adopt by British Fencing. Would solve lots if not all problems for organisers and competitors alike.

  3. #43
    Chris Howser cesh_fencing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    East Northamptonshire - Yarwell
    Posts
    5,158

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Not quite a Vet View Post
    Always thought this would be a greatly beneficial system to adopt by British Fencing. Would solve lots if not all problems for organisers and competitors alike.
    Great in principle, but British Fencing does not make the entry rules for 98% of events in the country.

    Lots of county events for example will still take entries on the day. New starter fencers often only find out about events the week before from their clubs as communication is so bad.

    For the county youth events I run, I am actually happy for fencers to make last minute decisions as circumstances may change and they find themselves available and it is beneficial for them and the events to have them attend.

    Obviously for big events taking later entries can cause issues, so maybe organisers just need to be more careful and have the processes in place to safely accept entries to whatever date they choose to take to.. However I would suggest closer than a few days before does ask for trouble..
    Oundle, Peterborough & Stamford Fencing

  4. #44
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    1,317

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cesh_fencing View Post
    Great in principle, but British Fencing does not make the entry rules for 98% of events in the country.

    Lots of county events for example will still take entries on the day. New starter fencers often only find out about events the week before from their clubs as communication is so bad.

    For the county youth events I run, I am actually happy for fencers to make last minute decisions as circumstances may change and they find themselves available and it is beneficial for them and the events to have them attend.

    Obviously for big events taking later entries can cause issues, so maybe organisers just need to be more careful and have the processes in place to safely accept entries to whatever date they choose to take to.. However I would suggest closer than a few days before does ask for trouble..
    That's fine.

    Then no-one should complain about the resultant delays though.
    JohnL

  5. #45

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnL View Post
    That's fine.

    Then no-one should complain about the resultant delays though.
    No no no. Just because some smaller regional events should take later entries doesn't mean you get to blame abysmal competition running on that and just have us all 'take it on the chin'.

    First and foremost, all the late entries in the world can't account for organisational flaws in this year's Birminham Open.

    Secondly, you can't just take one person's assertion that some competitions need the facility for late entries and use it as a sweeping justification for a shoddy competition. It's the equivalent of saying 'You want late entries to be allowed in the Gloucester county championships? Fine then, the nationals will take 4 extra hours to run'

    The Birmingham 'International' was once considered an A grade national event. Start running it that way and don't blame your failings on others.

    It's the exact same problem we saw in the competition, denial of responsibility and not addressing the issues.

    To anyone listening. Make a rival competition and I will go. Not only that I will encourage my clubmates and fencing network to go as well.

  6. #46
    Senior Member The Driver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    South East England (Greater London really)
    Posts
    577

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FencingMove View Post
    Make a rival competition and I will go. Not only that I will encourage my clubmates and fencing network to go as well.
    Well suggested. These problems with Birmingham are not new - 2012 for us was the last straw after several years of less than perfect organisation beforehand. Initially we probably did not know better however superior competitions attended elsewhere have shown how poor Birmingham was and apparently still is. The sheer arrogance of the Organisers, not to mention the rudeness, has to be experienced to be believed.
    What time does check-in close? How far away are we?

  7. #47
    Chris Howser cesh_fencing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    East Northamptonshire - Yarwell
    Posts
    5,158

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnL View Post
    That's fine.

    Then no-one should complain about the resultant delays though.
    As FencingMove says No No No

    Events can run perfectly well taking entries up to 5 minutes before check-in close time if they are correctly organised and have the correct procedures to do so (though I am not saying events should do).

    If an event does not have the procedures to take late entries then they should not do so. Do not blame the fencers for entering late, as the organisers of any event (and this is not pointed at B'ham as we have not had them on here specifically saying that was an issue) can simply not accept them.
    Oundle, Peterborough & Stamford Fencing

  8. #48
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    The Kingdom of Fife
    Posts
    1,079

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cesh_fencing View Post
    Great in principle, but British Fencing does not make the entry rules for 98% of events in the country.
    That's agreed, but my support for such a system would only be aimed at adult Opens, and if organisers wished for their competition to appear on the National Ranking System run by BF then they would have to adhere to the new entry policy.

    Stick used for Nationals.
    Use it again an change the lazy habits and fence sitting concerning events. Once the system was running it would only benefit the athletes and organisers.
    On another note I honestly think it's about time they looked into selecting individuals for Senior WC's a month or even two months in advance. This would allow our self funded athletes the chance of purchasing cheaper flights etc.

    British Fencing in this climate really have to start thinking of their athletes more and show the community they're not in the old ways of thinking its "someone else's money", get systems up and running for next season that will benefit fencers. Bring them to the fencing community now so we can all go forward in knowledge next season.

  9. #49
    Chris Howser cesh_fencing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    East Northamptonshire - Yarwell
    Posts
    5,158

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Not quite a Vet View Post
    That's agreed, but my support for such a system would only be aimed at adult Opens, and if organisers wished for their competition to appear on the National Ranking System run by BF then they would have to adhere to the new entry policy.
    Many events struggle to get enough numbers anyway. Doing this would mean the few extra entries that make events get through break even point financially may be lost.

    Many fencers I know who attend our Elite Epee run opens work shifts, so actually some do not know 4 weeks or 6 weeks ahead whether they can attend or not.

    If such a system came in they would more than likely just give up fencing all together and BF can ill-afford losing any members.

    Having a 'initial closing date' two weeks ahead and closing entries pretty much totally a week ahead is more than enough time to organise an event properly.

    In reality taking later entries can improve an event as rounding entries up to a multiple of 7 for poules can lead to a far better first round.

    If BF was to take such control over Opens, there are far more important things than when entries close, such as the event running correctly on the day. In reality this can be messed up whether entries close is 6 weeks prior to an event or 3 days before.
    Oundle, Peterborough & Stamford Fencing

  10. #50
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    The Kingdom of Fife
    Posts
    1,079

    Default

    I'll agree to disagree cesh_fencing, and surely working shifts would give you the tool to workout when you were working and therefore see throughout the year when ones spare time came around.

  11. #51
    Chris Howser cesh_fencing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    East Northamptonshire - Yarwell
    Posts
    5,158

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Not quite a Vet View Post
    I'll agree to disagree cesh_fencing, and surely working shifts would give you the tool to workout when you were working and therefore see throughout the year when ones spare time came around.
    I directly speak to the fencers involved. Many people do not know until a few weeks ahead when their shifts are set.

    Obviously for something like the British Championships or known high NIF events they would book the time off specifically, however for general opens, they have to wait and see what fits in as most shift workers cannot just have every weekend off.

    What they do not want to do is pay an entry fee 6 weeks ahead, find their shifts do not match and then be out of pocket.
    Oundle, Peterborough & Stamford Fencing

  12. #52
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    The Kingdom of Fife
    Posts
    1,079

    Default

    All that's required is for the competing fencing community dropping bad habits and to get used to a new way of entering competitions.
    As you've said time can be booked off for larger Nif events, and really in the grand scheme of things only a few of these are needed to be attended for an individual's rankings.
    Competitions would not suffer, athletes would know where and what competitions to enter promptly. This could even drive entries. A far better scenario than now, waiting patiently watching wether or not to enter, commit to 2 days of traveling, over night accommodation etc. The numbers would be up quickly and instead of individuals waiting they'd be following the large entries quick smart.
    This would certainly help organisers, and if competitions were on the grow quick of the mark, then fencers would see this 6 weeks before the event and be able to arrange holidays to attend. Not on the other hand watching numbers trickle up and then become a decent amount at the last minute leaving an individual high and dry and not able to attend.
    Yes it won't be perfect for all but it would be a better scenario for fencing in the whole. It's just a case of fencers getting used to a new system and not harking back to last minute dot com.

  13. #53
    Chris Howser cesh_fencing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    East Northamptonshire - Yarwell
    Posts
    5,158

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Not quite a Vet View Post
    Yes it won't be perfect for all but it would be a better scenario for fencing in the whole.
    The fact this issue came up was linked to the possible reasons for delays to the start at Birmingham. Accepting late entries should not impact on the running of an event, which is my main issue, and changing the whole system off the back of such a situation does seem a bit 'overkill'

    As an organiser wanting to make an event viable and wanting to offer fencers the opportunity to enter an event, it would be gut wrenching if you had space at an event 3 weeks before an event, had fencers still wanting to attend and having to turn them away because of a fixed requirement to enter 4 weeks before.

    Could kill off some events which are very beneficial to local fencing communities, but only just break even. That is why I feel it could be a bad thing in reality.

    In a perfect world I agree as an organiser it would be a good thing, if there was no loss of entries (especially in the cross-over period), which I think is a bit of a gamble when running events in the first place is a gamble as to whether you will break even anyway.
    Oundle, Peterborough & Stamford Fencing

  14. #54
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Lincolnshire
    Posts
    1,510

    Default

    Isn't this thread raising concerns about a single competition, being the Birmingham Open.

    As others have said, if you know a competition has a history of issues in an open market you can choose to attend or not. I can't comment on this competition because it's on the list of 'don't bother to attend' events. There are plenty out there who can get it right, both with large Nifs and smaller local events. If the event has a good reputation it will survive. For some reason folk also choose to attend events with less robust reputations. But we all make our choices I guess.

  15. #55
    Senior Member Hungry Hippo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Sussex-by-the-Sea
    Posts
    838

    Default

    I reckon its the timing over Easter that always guarantees the high participation numbers. For many, the four-day break makes it ideal to travel and make a decent mini-break of it - yes, there will be some who will avoid it for personal/family/holiday/religious reasons, but I would guess that there's not that many who are not already dialled into the fencing community.

    I'd wager that if anybody set up a half-decent competition against the BIFT, it would see the numbers flock across, and with a four-day weekend, even the single-weapon advocates could (almost) satisfy everybody - ME and MF have a day on their own, with the smaller weapons concurrent over the other two days. A large hall would not then be necessary.

    Mind you, it would be a four-day trek for organisers and others - any takers, Chris or Jon?

  16. #56
    Chris Howser cesh_fencing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    East Northamptonshire - Yarwell
    Posts
    5,158

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hungry Hippo View Post
    any takers, Chris or Jon?
    Had Epee Men's & Junior Series 2 weeks prior and Women's elite and BYC U10 Epee the weekend prior. So I am not doing 3 weekends in a row and Easter with the family is nice..
    Oundle, Peterborough & Stamford Fencing

  17. #57

    Default Photos

    There are some fab photos of the event from Saturday (MF, WF and MS)

    http://dingleimages.co.uk/

  18. #58
    Initiate Richard_Burn's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Birmingham
    Posts
    47

    Default Apology from BIFT

    Dear Forum, Fencers, Coaches and Parents

    First and foremost we would like to apologise for the time delays which occurred on both days, when hardware and software failed to work as it should have done.

    With I.T. underpinning all competitions this had a knock-on effect throughout both days. Hence we took the decision to run the MS and WS events separately to save further delays. Please rest assured we are already addressing the problems which occurred.

    We would like to thank all those who refereed to help all these competitions reach their conclusion. Having had to use the old venue at the last moment we didn't have the benefit of screens or an integrated P.A.system to help the running of this event as we had envisaged.

    2018 new venue.
    This will allow us to have all the pistes in one room, live results on screen around the new hall and a PA system to help with communication. Many of you passed the new centre on the way to fence. We can now see that the new 360 centre is almost ready. Do have a look on www.sportandfitness.bham.ac.uk. where the single span sports hall will take all the event.

    We look forward to seeing you next year on 31st March or 1st April.

    Yours in fencing,

    Posted on behalf of The Birmingham International Fencing Tournament Team.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •