International results

[graham paul]

From an epée perspective:



We can spend some time and get upset with each other arguing about whether changing the format of qualifying competitions is more or less likely to produce medal winners from those fencers currently taking part in the 40+ and 50+ age groups Veteran European and World championship GBR qualifying competitions. Maybe we should be much more proactively encouraging people like Greg Allen, Jason Scrimshaw, Quentin Berriman, and looking to the future, Jon Willis and Nick Perry, and their contemporaries, to get them to take part in , or see why they don’t compete in Veteran competitions, now or in the future. (apologies if I’ve missed you off)

Hi Pete,
Some interesting ideas. Whilst I agree it would be good to persuade some of our previously successful fencer to make a return, this is not the only solution.
There are a number of successful vets who are relatively new to fencers. At least 2 of the medal winners at the recent Europeans were examples- Michelle Narey and Jane Hutchison. The thing that they both have in common is a serious attitude to training, This probably applies to most of the ex-top fencers. It is a combination of some talent and hard work that brings success.

[graham paul]

I stated earlier in this thread that I did not think that any of the younger teams (Veterans as opposed to Grand Veterans), with the exception of sabre, won a DE match in last years ET16.

Nick Mort has pointed out on FB where I cannot reply directly, that MF did win a DE match. He is quite correct although it is probably reasoanble to point out that the top 6 teams had a bye through this round and GB had to fence due to their low seeding. The same analysis also applies to WE.

I believe that ET16, being on home soil, is a good indicator of our standard as issues such as travel costs should not have been significant.
Results from the the Veterans Teams were-

MF	8/10
ME	12/17
MS	8/10
WF	5/7
WE	8/11
WS	1/6

The results from the Grand Veterans were not much better.
Now there always excuses that can be made injury, if a fight had gone a different way (robbed at 4all often happens to me) etc. However if we look at the scores in the losing DE matches we can see that none of them were even close -

MF	5-1
ME	5-0
MS	5-1
WF	5-2
WE	5-1

(for infomation, matches were fought as the best of 9 fights, stopping when one team reached 5)

Let me be clear, I am not knocking our fencers, they receive little encouragement or assistance. Competing fencers were asked to act as team captains at ET16. Many fencers have little understanding of the required standard to be successful. Other countries are now taking veterans fencing much more seriously. If we are happy to be the also rans, then fine, but if we want to be one of the top nations we need to raise our standards.

I have been told to make it clear that these are my own opinions and not necessarily the opinions of the Veterans comittee. Probably not unreasonable to assume this for all my posts unless stated otherwise.

[cesh_fencing]

Let me be clear, I am not knocking our fencers, they receive little encouragement or assistance.

Even, as you state, 'with little encouragement or encouragement', many fencers will feel you are stating they are not trying hard enough or doing as well as you would expect.

Though I am really sure GB Veteran fencers would love to improve Veteran results, the GB team was 5th in the Medal Table at the Europeans and only Italy, Germany & France won more medals than GB. And they have been the powerhouses of Fencing in Europe for decades at all age-groups.

As we all know, our fencers will do better if they at able to train more & attend more competitions abroad. All these things require time and money.

Most Cat 1 & 2 Veterans will lack one or two or both of these, so unless you know of a big fencing related company which had cash to spare to support/sponsor our Veteran fencers and ideally could also offer a baby sitting service across the country, we are likely to have to wait until fencer's financial strains (children especially) have moved away. This is more likely to be when they are closer to the Cat 3 age-group..

[Foilling Around]

Most Cat 1 & 2 Veterans will lack one or two or both of these, so unless you know of a big fencing related company which had cash to spare to support/sponsor our Veteran fencers and ideally could also offer a baby sitting service across the country, we are likely to have to wait until fencer's financial strains (children especially) have moved away. This is more likely to be when they are closer to the Cat 3 age-group..

I know you were tongue in cheek Cesh, but if a large fencing related company had spare money hanging round, I would rather it put more into the current teams and the cadets/juniors as opposed to old farts like me!!

Most of us have far to busy lives as Cat1 and Cat2 Vets to take training seriously. Careers, kids, coaching etc. and financial commitments take precedence.

And really, it's veterans fencing! It's meant to be fun. GBR easily punches above it's weight as far as medals go compared to what those same fencers did on the senior circuit.

Yes, I'm sure we could do better, but if you have the time energy and money to use, then get involved with the youngsters and contribute to the future of our great sport.

If you want to travel abroad with fencing, team manage some cadets or juniors. Try it it's good fun and really rewarding. I wish I had the time to do more of it.

I know a lot of we vets do that to varying degrees already and I do not decry anyone spending their time and money in whatever way they choose, but the next generation can always do with more help.

[graham paul]

Most Cat 1 & 2 Veterans will lack one or two or both of these, so unless you know of a big fencing related company which had cash to spare to support/sponsor our Veteran fencers and ideally could also offer a baby sitting service across the country, we are likely to have to wait until fencer's financial strains (children especially) have moved away. .

I do not know of any such company but perhaps fencing coaches with their huge incomes could get together and contribute?

[cesh_fencing]

I do not know of any such company but perhaps fencing coaches with their huge incomes could get together and contribute?

Maybe it is the fact that offering discounted/free sessions to some of our kids/schools is something many coaches do to support access to the sport throughout our community, which means that funds are short for 'fun' fencing for themselves.

As Paul says, many of our top younger veteran fencers are very much involved in coaching and other fencing activities, time and effort supporting the future fencers is a priority for many of us.

Veteran fencing is meant to be fun, however I am sure many of us will put in the training prior to selected events, but training continuously is not practical . For many of us, who are the coaches, finding a good coach for regular lessons in many areas of the country is actually pretty difficult as well.

[marg]

I wish people would stop taking this so personally. I didn't start fencing until I was nearly 40 and the Veterans competitions were some of the first I ever did. I have had a lot of success over the last 20 years that I have been in the Vets and am very aware of the relative strengths of the weapons in this country and internationally.
Any comment about the need to 'up our game in Cat1 ' is constructive comments and should be taken as such. We are weaker in certain weapons. It is a fact!
When we fence in a team representing GB there is no ' I ' in team!

[hokers]

Anyone else want to enter the MS for the BVF summer selection event? Closes tonight.

I just entered and I'll be the 10th in Cat1+Cat2 so there will be a few people to fence at least now.

[Nathan]

Hi All. I was wondering why we in fact do quite well as vets when in reality we are weak in terms of senior results. We have had a slight run of good results in mens foil in recent months but nothing in terms of high world rankings in the other weapons. If the pool of high attaining fencers are larger in other countries is it not quite understandable that GBR would struggle especially in cat 1?

[graham paul]

Hi All. I was wondering why we in fact do quite well as vets when in reality we are weak in terms of senior results. We have had a slight run of good results in mens foil in recent months but nothing in terms of high world rankings in the other weapons. If the pool of high attaining fencers are larger in other countries is it not quite understandable that GBR would struggle especially in cat 1?

Interesting question.
Historically GB has done very well in the Veterans World Champs. Typically from the inception of Veterans Worlds, GB would usually be in the top 2 countries of the medal table.
I among some other of the GB vets such as Richard Cohen had been reasonably successfull with international results without ever being at the top. We were amateurs competing against full time 'professional' fencers. Virtually none of these full time fencers have competed in the Vets. My guess is that these fencers had done so much training that when they finished their senior careers they just stopped competing completely.
I see no reason that GB shouldnt return to our status as one of the top veterans nations, but other countries are taking it more seriously and we need to improve to get back to the top.