Page 8 of 9 FirstFirst ... 456789 LastLast
Results 141 to 160 of 169

Thread: Thoughts on the new GBR patch?

  1. #141
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Lincolnshire
    Posts
    1,510

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Willis View Post
    I'm the Epee Weapon Manager for BF and I don't want to see any British Epee fencer who has not been selected for a FIE event wearing the new patch.
    This is certainly an Epee issue, so presumably something endorsed by BF.

  2. #142
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    London
    Posts
    1,584

    Default

    Part of a grand plan to transform our fencing?
    Edward Peck

  3. #143
    Senior Member max's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Sheffield
    Posts
    395

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Willis View Post
    I'm the Epee Weapon Manager for BF and I don't want to see any British Epee fencer who has not been selected for a FIE event wearing the new patch.
    I've just spotted this, how does this affect those who have been selected in the past? Should they be allowed to retrospectively fit the new patch a few years after their selection?
    A problem shared is one more person to laugh at you.

  4. #144

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kalivor View Post
    Are you arguing that top-level rugby players are motivated by the shirt they receive when they make the team? That they wouldn't train as hard if they could just buy it in a shop? Under the impression that people who don't make the team cannot buy England rugby shirts?

    I suspect you may be mistaken regarding the motivating factor.

    (In case I'm mistaken, however, don't let any rugby players know that England Rugby have an online shop ...)
    Using the metaphor of England rugby.

    Earning caps for your country is a massive source of pride. People are unable to pretend to have represented England Rugby because England rugby kit is unavailable to the public. Yes you can get 'replica' shirts but you can't buy official test match kit.

    Addressing your assertion that England Rugby players would work and train hard regardless of what type of kit they got for representing their country. This is correct. But it is an insult to that hard work to lay claim to their achievement by falsely presenting that you reached that standard.

    The wearing of England Rugby kit off the pitch or at training is an obvious show of support for this spectator sport. Again here you have missed the point. We are discussing the wearing of stripes at a competition level. An analogous example here would be an entire amateur rugby team turning up to a tournament wearing full England kit. As ridiculous as this sounds it is what people is fencing are doing when they wear unearned stripes at open competitions.

    How would you feel if someone turned up to a competition wearing your club badge who had never trained at your club?

    It's not about the motivation of the athletes. It's about giving them the respect they are due for the hard work they have put in to earn their caps.

    My solution is that there should be more focus on club representation at national level. Take pride in your club, have club badges and club stripes. Save the international stripes for minor internationals. I have no problem with people wearing stripes at internationals.

  5. #145
    Moderator Gav's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Posts
    5,607

    Default

    Checks in. Sees walls of text on the subject of team heraldry.

    Checks back out.
    "Evil does not wear a bonnet!"
    "Thanks Ants ... Thants.


    It is forbidden to dream again;
    We maim our joys or hide them;

  6. #146
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Milton Keynes Fencing Club
    Posts
    137

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FencingMove View Post
    Using the metaphor of England rugby.

    Earning caps for your country is a massive source of pride.
    Exactly, it it the same for football, they talk of caps, real caps you wear on your head, the kit you wear on the pitch doesn't really matter too much.

    If BF were to rule that from midnight tonight nobody other than those who have represented GBR can wear the patch, what difference would it make to everyday fencing? If it really is a problem, which I doubt, lets get something similar to the cap system.

  7. #147

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MKCap View Post
    Exactly, it it the same for football, they talk of caps, real caps you wear on your head, the kit you wear on the pitch doesn't really matter too much.

    If BF were to rule that from midnight tonight nobody other than those who have represented GBR can wear the patch, what difference would it make to everyday fencing? If it really is a problem, which I doubt, lets get something similar to the cap system.
    This is not what I said. I feel like I went into a good amount of detail about why the kit worn on the pitch does matter.

  8. #148
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    NI when not in Dublin, Scotland or the SW
    Posts
    206

    Default

    Re FencingMove: there is a structural difference - the GBR patch is freely available to the general public, matchday jerseys are not.

    Unless everyone in the sport, from governors to grassroots, subscribes to the same philosophy of what stripes/patches "mean", there is no objectively right or wrong approach. There is nobody with the authority to 'police' who sews what on their kit and nobody with a mandate to force their standards on anyone else. In practice, whether you look at new patches or old stripes, the only unambiguous sign of a fencer's quality is where it has always been: on the piste.
    L. Donaghy occasionally NIR/IRL

  9. #149

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rake View Post
    Re FencingMove: there is a structural difference - the GBR patch is freely available to the general public, matchday jerseys are not.

    Unless everyone in the sport, from governors to grassroots, subscribes to the same philosophy of what stripes/patches "mean", there is no objectively right or wrong approach. There is nobody with the authority to 'police' who sews what on their kit and nobody with a mandate to force their standards on anyone else. In practice, whether you look at new patches or old stripes, the only unambiguous sign of a fencer's quality is where it has always been: on the piste.
    I don't argue with you Laura. At the moment stripes are freely available and thus the free-for-all on them will continue.

    I think that they shouldn't be freely available as their use is being abused. But as you have stated, we don't have resource (or desire?) to police it so it will continue.

    Most debates on the forum are semantic though so I still like to throw my 2 pence in.

  10. #150
    Senior Member pavski's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    sarf innit!
    Posts
    290

    Default

    Wow,

    4 pages (in my browser) and 148 posts on stripes/patches


    If only there was as much interest & comment on training plans, coaching methods, S&C, tactics and strategy.

  11. #151
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    London
    Posts
    470

    Default

    I see that BF put up this statement on the logo under its latest news section on Aug 3.
    "INFORMATION REGARDING FIE APPROVED GBR LOGOS"
    Wondering if it's helpful for this thread...
    http://www.britishfencing.com/news/latest-news/?n=1769

  12. #152
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Lincolnshire
    Posts
    1,510

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fleetfoot View Post
    I see that BF put up this statement on the logo under its latest news section on Aug 3.
    "INFORMATION REGARDING FIE APPROVED GBR LOGOS"
    Wondering if it's helpful for this thread...
    http://www.britishfencing.com/news/latest-news/?n=1769
    I saw it and thought the language used was very clear around when the patch was required and when it was optional, and as expected for cadet competitions it isn't optional (or therefore expected). It was clear that no one needs to remove any stripes until they go to a 'patch required' competition.

  13. #153
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    1,269

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick E View Post
    I saw it and thought the language used was very clear around when the patch was required and when it was optional, and as expected for cadet competitions it isn't optional (or therefore expected). It was clear that no one needs to remove any stripes until they go to a 'patch required' competition.
    The only bit I don't get is the exclusion of cadets selected for and attending nominated international events.

  14. #154
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Lincolnshire
    Posts
    1,510

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by coach carson View Post
    The only bit I don't get is the exclusion of cadets selected for and attending nominated international events.
    Actually on reflection this is the only significant group of fencers now excluded who might have worn the stripes before, as juniors are allowed to wear the patch by 'option' so of course they will.

    Maybe they just need to wear a GB Flag patch - which I'm sure I have seen pentathletes wearing so must be available. Nothing says they can't ......

  15. #155
    Forum Rabbit
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    9

    Default Hmm... a traditional flag embroidered over GBR in a strong font like Copperplate Bold

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeBloggs View Post
    Traditional themes stand the test of time which I suspect this busy redesign will not.

  16. #156
    Mavis Thornton pinkelephant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Lytham St Annes, Lancs
    Posts
    6,014

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick E View Post
    Actually on reflection this is the only significant group of fencers now excluded who might have worn the stripes before, as juniors are allowed to wear the patch by 'option' so of course they will.

    Maybe they just need to wear a GB Flag patch - which I'm sure I have seen pentathletes wearing so must be available. Nothing says they can't ......
    No - they just need name and country code, and that is all BF wants them to have.
    Advocate extraordinaire to Beelzebub.

  17. #157

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pinkelephant View Post
    No - they just need name and country code, and that is all BF wants them to have.

    If BF want only name and code for this group, does this mean those that have stripes should remove them for certain competitions so all fencers look the same when together, and follow BF wishes? Perhaps not many have stripes, so might not matter. Those that are permitted to wear the new GBR logo, if in the future they are no longer competing at international competitions (for whatever reason) do they have to remove the GBR logo?

  18. #158
    Senior Member Jon Willis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    London
    Posts
    646

    Default

    For cadet international events (EFC circuit) you don't need to take off your old stripes.

    When fencers stop fencing internationally and finally replace their kit, most don't bother having it named or the GB patches put on as it's not a 'thing' to them anymore.

  19. #159
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    590

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Willis View Post
    For cadet international events (EFC circuit) you don't need to take off your old stripes.
    Don't need to take the old stripes off for Junior World Cups or Junior & Cadet Europeans either...

  20. #160
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Lancashire/London
    Posts
    393

    Default Vets Winton

    Just fenced at the Winton this weekend and the new GBR logo was on show.
    Lots of fencers had the same Patches from Leon Paul that I have. But lots of people had the spray on Logo that looked absolutely fabulous. All of the people I asked said Allstar did it for them and they do it for all kit makes not just their own. Why don't Leon Paul offer this service I would have got Allstar to do my new Leon Paul Kit if I had known and not bought the awful patches.
    Does anyone know?

    Jeff
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things.
    Winston Churchill

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •