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Thread: Thoughts on the new GBR patch?

  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Willis View Post
    I'm the Epee Weapon Manager for BF and I don't want to see any British Epee fencer who has not been selected for a FIE event wearing the new patch.
    This is certainly an Epee issue, so presumably something endorsed by BF.

  2. #142
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    Part of a grand plan to transform our fencing?
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  3. #143
    Senior Member max's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Willis View Post
    I'm the Epee Weapon Manager for BF and I don't want to see any British Epee fencer who has not been selected for a FIE event wearing the new patch.
    I've just spotted this, how does this affect those who have been selected in the past? Should they be allowed to retrospectively fit the new patch a few years after their selection?
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  4. #144

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    Quote Originally Posted by kalivor View Post
    Are you arguing that top-level rugby players are motivated by the shirt they receive when they make the team? That they wouldn't train as hard if they could just buy it in a shop? Under the impression that people who don't make the team cannot buy England rugby shirts?

    I suspect you may be mistaken regarding the motivating factor.

    (In case I'm mistaken, however, don't let any rugby players know that England Rugby have an online shop ...)
    Using the metaphor of England rugby.

    Earning caps for your country is a massive source of pride. People are unable to pretend to have represented England Rugby because England rugby kit is unavailable to the public. Yes you can get 'replica' shirts but you can't buy official test match kit.

    Addressing your assertion that England Rugby players would work and train hard regardless of what type of kit they got for representing their country. This is correct. But it is an insult to that hard work to lay claim to their achievement by falsely presenting that you reached that standard.

    The wearing of England Rugby kit off the pitch or at training is an obvious show of support for this spectator sport. Again here you have missed the point. We are discussing the wearing of stripes at a competition level. An analogous example here would be an entire amateur rugby team turning up to a tournament wearing full England kit. As ridiculous as this sounds it is what people is fencing are doing when they wear unearned stripes at open competitions.

    How would you feel if someone turned up to a competition wearing your club badge who had never trained at your club?

    It's not about the motivation of the athletes. It's about giving them the respect they are due for the hard work they have put in to earn their caps.

    My solution is that there should be more focus on club representation at national level. Take pride in your club, have club badges and club stripes. Save the international stripes for minor internationals. I have no problem with people wearing stripes at internationals.

  5. #145
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    Checks in. Sees walls of text on the subject of team heraldry.

    Checks back out.
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  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by FencingMove View Post
    Using the metaphor of England rugby.

    Earning caps for your country is a massive source of pride.
    Exactly, it it the same for football, they talk of caps, real caps you wear on your head, the kit you wear on the pitch doesn't really matter too much.

    If BF were to rule that from midnight tonight nobody other than those who have represented GBR can wear the patch, what difference would it make to everyday fencing? If it really is a problem, which I doubt, lets get something similar to the cap system.

  7. #147

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    Quote Originally Posted by MKCap View Post
    Exactly, it it the same for football, they talk of caps, real caps you wear on your head, the kit you wear on the pitch doesn't really matter too much.

    If BF were to rule that from midnight tonight nobody other than those who have represented GBR can wear the patch, what difference would it make to everyday fencing? If it really is a problem, which I doubt, lets get something similar to the cap system.
    This is not what I said. I feel like I went into a good amount of detail about why the kit worn on the pitch does matter.

  8. #148
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    Re FencingMove: there is a structural difference - the GBR patch is freely available to the general public, matchday jerseys are not.

    Unless everyone in the sport, from governors to grassroots, subscribes to the same philosophy of what stripes/patches "mean", there is no objectively right or wrong approach. There is nobody with the authority to 'police' who sews what on their kit and nobody with a mandate to force their standards on anyone else. In practice, whether you look at new patches or old stripes, the only unambiguous sign of a fencer's quality is where it has always been: on the piste.
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  9. #149

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    Quote Originally Posted by rake View Post
    Re FencingMove: there is a structural difference - the GBR patch is freely available to the general public, matchday jerseys are not.

    Unless everyone in the sport, from governors to grassroots, subscribes to the same philosophy of what stripes/patches "mean", there is no objectively right or wrong approach. There is nobody with the authority to 'police' who sews what on their kit and nobody with a mandate to force their standards on anyone else. In practice, whether you look at new patches or old stripes, the only unambiguous sign of a fencer's quality is where it has always been: on the piste.
    I don't argue with you Laura. At the moment stripes are freely available and thus the free-for-all on them will continue.

    I think that they shouldn't be freely available as their use is being abused. But as you have stated, we don't have resource (or desire?) to police it so it will continue.

    Most debates on the forum are semantic though so I still like to throw my 2 pence in.

  10. #150
    Senior Member pavski's Avatar
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    Wow,

    4 pages (in my browser) and 148 posts on stripes/patches


    If only there was as much interest & comment on training plans, coaching methods, S&C, tactics and strategy.

  11. #151
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    I see that BF put up this statement on the logo under its latest news section on Aug 3.
    "INFORMATION REGARDING FIE APPROVED GBR LOGOS"
    Wondering if it's helpful for this thread...
    http://www.britishfencing.com/news/latest-news/?n=1769

  12. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fleetfoot View Post
    I see that BF put up this statement on the logo under its latest news section on Aug 3.
    "INFORMATION REGARDING FIE APPROVED GBR LOGOS"
    Wondering if it's helpful for this thread...
    http://www.britishfencing.com/news/latest-news/?n=1769
    I saw it and thought the language used was very clear around when the patch was required and when it was optional, and as expected for cadet competitions it isn't optional (or therefore expected). It was clear that no one needs to remove any stripes until they go to a 'patch required' competition.

  13. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick E View Post
    I saw it and thought the language used was very clear around when the patch was required and when it was optional, and as expected for cadet competitions it isn't optional (or therefore expected). It was clear that no one needs to remove any stripes until they go to a 'patch required' competition.
    The only bit I don't get is the exclusion of cadets selected for and attending nominated international events.

  14. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by coach carson View Post
    The only bit I don't get is the exclusion of cadets selected for and attending nominated international events.
    Actually on reflection this is the only significant group of fencers now excluded who might have worn the stripes before, as juniors are allowed to wear the patch by 'option' so of course they will.

    Maybe they just need to wear a GB Flag patch - which I'm sure I have seen pentathletes wearing so must be available. Nothing says they can't ......

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