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Thread: The New Talent Programme

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not quite a Vet View Post
    If it is just an English Pathway fine then have it in London and Manchester, but if British Fencing are meaning this to be a UK scheme, and by their invitations this was probably the case, then it's one south and one north training bases fall far short of meeting a UK wide involvement.
    Oh good lord read the document.

    How has it come to me having to defend British Fencing...

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by riposteinprime View Post
    Oh good lord read the document.

    How has it come to me having to defend British Fencing...
    No just your narrow minded comments to others, the document has indeed been looked over by myself and others who you then write the "read the document" mantra to.

    We know it's English Finances for the development of English Fencers, so why is British Fencing using English Sport money for a UK invited training scheme?

    Wait wait, don't answer riposteinprime I've already got it, "read the document".

    Thank you.

    It's not about the finances or where the backing for such a scheme comes from, or is it about its English Sport money so no answers are required, the issue is its again another project which seems to be doomed it's only saving grace this time is the fact it isn't completely based in London.

  3. #23
    Senior Member ChrisHeaps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fencers mum View Post
    So, British Fencing organising for English Fencing is what this is telling me. Why invite the Scots if it is not actually for them?

    Not trying to start a political war (even if it seems that way). Just genuinely curious. If British Fencing is supposed to support ALL the home nations why is everything based purely in England? I understand the funding for this is Sport England(?) but surely then it should not be a BF programme?
    I really am confused as to what is BF and what is EF!
    Hi Mum,

    Which weapon does your youngster do?

    I can't speak for sabre or foil but I was at the Manchester Epee BRC at the weekend with my daughter, Hannah, and introduced myself to Mark Chapman the lead coach for epee who was also there with some of his kids from the Canterbury school.

    He was very generous with his time and is very enthusiastic and positive about the whole thing. The message I get is that they are there to support everyone, coaches and fencers that want to take advantage of what they have to offer. This may not be in depth hands on coaching as resources and space are limited. I'd definitely recommend speaking to one of the coaches in person if you can grab them at an upcoming comp.

    On the question of BF running it with SportEngland funding I think it makes sense for a number of reasons. Firstly, ultimately it's driving GBR improvement. Secondly BF have the admin infrastructure in place to be able to organise a programme like this.

    For the physical location I think it's right that they are in England if it's Sport England money. Your post made me realise that I'd never heard of a Scottish equivalent so I had a look and there is a SportScotland and I suppose they make their own choices with regards to which sports get funding in our devolved governments.

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    https://sportscotland.org.uk/media/1...zons-final.pdf

  4. #24
    Moderator Gav's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisHeaps View Post
    Hi Mum,

    Which weapon does your youngster do?

    I can't speak for sabre or foil but I was at the Manchester Epee BRC at the weekend with my daughter, Hannah, and introduced myself to Mark Chapman the lead coach for epee who was also there with some of his kids from the Canterbury school.

    He was very generous with his time and is very enthusiastic and positive about the whole thing. The message I get is that they are there to support everyone, coaches and fencers that want to take advantage of what they have to offer. This may not be in depth hands on coaching as resources and space are limited. I'd definitely recommend speaking to one of the coaches in person if you can grab them at an upcoming comp.

    On the question of BF running it with SportEngland funding I think it makes sense for a number of reasons. Firstly, ultimately it's driving GBR improvement. Secondly BF have the admin infrastructure in place to be able to organise a programme like this.

    For the physical location I think it's right that they are in England if it's Sport England money. Your post made me realise that I'd never heard of a Scottish equivalent so I had a look and there is a SportScotland and I suppose they make their own choices with regards to which sports get funding in our devolved governments.

    2015-2016 (Investment to governing body)
    Fencing - 172,100
    Curling - 741,325
    Golf - 1,397,966


    https://sportscotland.org.uk/media/1...zons-final.pdf
    Hi Chris,

    You are correct that because this is Sport England money, that's why these Sessions take place in England.

    Sport Scotland and Scottish Fencing have a separate relationship. You are correct that Sport Scotland could consider a LTAD plan for Scottish Fencing but that's a matter for Scottish Fencing.

    FencersMum complaint is that the advertisement suggests that this is a "British venture" (ie including everyone in the UK) and yet it's clearly aimed at English Fencers. That's the problem and it's a long-standing political one.

    I don't blame BF for taking whatever money they can and running with it. After all they HAVE lost their funding.

    This has NOTHING to do with specific coaches and whether they are any good or not. It's an entirely political issue. To see it in that context probably requires people to look in from outside of the world of England Fencing. That you don't realise that there might be a separate body in Scotland highlights this last point.

    For the record I encourage any fencer I coach to take any opportunity they can - so long as they can afford it. From my perspective if this rolls into a program which affects selection then we'd have to start asking some questions.
    Last edited by Gav; -14th September 2017 at 10:50.
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  5. #25
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    hi Gav, et al


    I think its rather nice to extend the invitation to any uk fencers who want to come ! I would re emphasise that its an invitation...
    normally when one receives an invitation ( this may be a bit C18 ) you say thankyou !

    anyway, of course its important who the coaches are too...
    basically it is a limited programme wherein there is opportunity for talented groups of fencers to do some quality training... i.e depth , breadth, quality and quantity... as such I can understand how it benefits all parties..

    for their level I would put this up with a par on lessons and foreign box time and training camps... one or two day 'training days' very useful.

    I just find it very uncharitable that people would complain about being invited, that's just nuts

    However maybe there is something else going on,,, for example a dates clash with Scottish / nearby regional club training sessions.. or a clash with some other major event.. in which case I would understand that its very important for the Scottish or north of UK not to have additional events added to their normal calendar that would thin out attendance or compromise their existing established training order. That's the only thing I can think of unless am missing something.

    kind regards
    mark

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by plenty View Post
    hi Gav, et al


    I think its rather nice to extend the invitation to any uk fencers who want to come ! I would re emphasise that its an invitation...
    normally when one receives an invitation ( this may be a bit C18 ) you say thankyou !

    ....

    I just find it very uncharitable that people would complain about being invited, that's just nuts

    I love it when people say that I should be happy to accept "charity". I suppose I should doff my mask and humbly say thanks.

    "Thank you very much, we peons know our place. Thank ee lawrd, thank ee kindly." Now bow and scrape, bow and scrape ...

    Plenty, you are amazingly tone-deaf.

    Which reminds me, that whooshing sound? That was my point soaring over your head.

    I'll make it simple to comprehend. I have no issue with EF getting the cash and doing something interesting with it. That Scottish Fencers have been invited is cool with me too, I've encouraged fencers I work with to accept their invitations and attend if they can!

    The rest is my discussion with Chris on his various points.
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post

    You are correct that because this is Sport England money, that's why these Sessions take place in England.

    Sport Scotland and Scottish Fencing have a separate relationship. You are correct that Sport Scotland could consider a LTAD plan for Scottish Fencing but that's a matter for Scottish Fencing.

    FencersMum complaint is that the advertisement suggests that this is a "British venture" (ie including everyone in the UK)

    I don't blame BF for taking whatever money they can and running with it. After all they HAVE lost their funding.
    And this is it in a nut shell. It's also my biggest gripe. The National Governing Body is using finances provided by Sport England and outwardly running a National Training Programme which is surely fundamental to an NGB's existence. Is this a box ticking excercise proving to UK Sport that they were running a National Development Programme for future funding?
    No one North of the border is moaning about the funding and where it came from and what it should be spent on, just the opposite, how and why are BF spending it in this fashion.
    I'd certainly be even more upset and curious if I was a member of English Fencing.
    Again it's all a bit messy.

  8. #28
    Senior Member danKew's Avatar
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    Just to swing this back round to a more positive note, it is great to see that our cadet epee fencers not only have the new TP to assist with their development, but we also the support of The Epee Club Charitable Fund who are funding a coach (Kenichi) for the first nominated International. This time last year we had neither of these things.

    Join the The Epee Club Charitable Fund community at https://www.justgiving.com/epee-club


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