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Thread: Sabre PIL

  1. #1
    Forum Rabbit
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    Default Sabre PIL

    Hey everybody,

    Just looking for some clarification here.

    During a bout I established PIL and started walking backwards toward my end line. Post fight, my coach came across and mentioned that the line was invalid.

    As far as he was aware after a past discussion with a qualified referee (foil however), you could only take one step back from when line was established then hold position.

    Anything continuing backwards would be classed as a counterattack.

    Could someone with more experience than myself please explain to me why or why not this is the case?

    Many Thanks

    AJ

  2. #2

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    As long as you did not move your PIL off valid target area and there was not break in the line, then it's line. Does not matter how many steps you take back.

    If you take a step forward or lunge into your opponent as they advance, then like normal attacking rules you have until your front foot lands to score the hit because technically you have priority.

    Hope this has cleared it up.

  3. #3
    ***** Legend hokers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MASK3D MAN View Post
    As long as you did not move your PIL off valid target area and there was not break in the line, then it's line. Does not matter how many steps you take back.
    This is correct

    Quote Originally Posted by MASK3D MAN View Post
    If you take a step forward or lunge into your opponent as they advance, then like normal attacking rules you have until your front foot lands to score the hit because technically you have priority.
    This is not correct - you can step forward as well once the line is established.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by hokers View Post
    This is correct



    This is not correct - you can step forward as well once the line is established.


    Can you help my understanding out?

    Of course you can take multiple step forward with it but I have never seen this given as at hit? Plus I don't think anybody would do this as opponent would probably just beat attack.

    Is the line a defensive action of attacking action?

    And like the rest of the rules surely it must be complete in 'one fencing time' or it would be like unlimited attempt at hitting your opponent.

    Furthermore, when watching fencing I have noticed that when fences establish line and step forward or lunge with it, without making a hit, they drop line step back and then reestablish line? Why does this happen?

    Also, if a fencer searches for the line with beat but their action is too big and almost stop, why does the fencer with line drop it and take the action up with the feet? I notices lots of the top Hungarians doing this? Why not as you suggest step forward multiple times with the line?

  5. #5
    Senior Member randomsabreur's Avatar
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    Line is fab but has limitations - it has to stay on target while advancing, it's a lot easier to beat than a classical prep position - so the line is used to disrupt the opponent's attack - scoring opportunities are a bonus!
    Last Competition: Bristol L8
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  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by MASK3D MAN View Post
    Can you help my understanding out?

    Of course you can take multiple step forward with it but I have never seen this given as at hit? Plus I don't think anybody would do this as opponent would probably just beat attack.
    Depends on the skill and experience level of the opponent. If they're not used to seeing PIL in sabre, they may try to take a beat on it -- with a BIG swinging action (for some reason, people think making a beat in 4m a parry in 4, or taking a line are different actions....they're really the same). At that point, if you're reasonably skilled with PIL, you can disengage around the attempted parry and hit (with the point).

    If the line is properly established, the line is not list for any reason, and it lands with the point...and it is NOT awarded even if you're advancing forward, you need to ask for a bout committee and have the rules checked.

    Is the line a defensive action of attacking action?
    PIL is best defined as a position that is awarded priority over any other action coming at it -- provided that the line is properly established (and the ref SEES it) before the other attack begins...which is why I usually step back a few if I plan to throw it out there.

    [quote]And like the rest of the rules surely it must be complete in 'one fencing time' or it would be like unlimited attempt at hitting your opponent. [/qupte]

    Complete in one fencing time her does not mean hitting in that time...it means proper establishment OF the line.

    If I make an advance lunge, miss, and immediately recover/retreat and throw a line out, it'll be established in one tempo.

    Furthermore, when watching fencing I have noticed that when fences establish line and step forward or lunge with it, without making a hit, they drop line step back and then reestablish line? Why does this happen?

    Also, if a fencer searches for the line with beat but their action is too big and almost stop, why does the fencer with line drop it and take the action up with the feet? I notices lots of the top Hungarians doing this? Why not as you suggest step forward multiple times with the line?
    Usually they use the line as a delaying tactic or a bait for another action like setting up a counter-parry...reestablishing the line after breaking it buys a little more time to plan.

    Sometimes a "line" is thrown out there that is not even a line by the grace of God...arm is straight, but the line is clearly bent at the wrist like old high tierce. Doesn't give priority, but it CAN slow the other guy down a little.

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