Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 30 of 30

Thread: British Championships

  1. #21

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    I think someone did the maths a while back and the answer was that the entry fee would have to be much higher - around £100(? not sure if I remember correctly) - for refs et al to be paid.

    We don't value the sport, so we don't pay and yet we expect everything to be laid out for us.

    Personally speaking, way before we get video replay, I'd prefer to see people who give up their time to help run the event get paid.
    Seem to remember there was also an issue with refs having to be employed by BF if they were paid and tax etc having to be paid. Maybe I'm wrong but it would certainly have put up cost and admin.
    Last edited by Mini Musketeer; -17th April 2018 at 13:37. Reason: spelling

  2. #22

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mini Musketeer View Post
    Seem to remember there was also an issue with refs having to be employed by BF if they were paid and tax etc having to be paid. Maybe I'm wrong but it would certainly have put up cost and admin.
    I'm no expert but surely you'd just treat them as contractors?
    "Evil does not wear a bonnet!"
    "Thanks Ants ... Thants.


    It is forbidden to dream again;
    We maim our joys or hide them;

  3. #23

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    I'm no expert but surely you'd just treat them as contractors?
    Yes, you could just treat them as sole trader (or ltd depending on whether they want to) contractors. I can't imagine that this would be an issue from a legal point of view. (Although not my field)

    Would be surprised if BFA thought there was an obligation to retain refs under a contract of employment.

    Might be worth considering the creation of a body to protect the rights of referees. Something similar to a union which would lobby and make decisions on behalf of the membership.

    If a competition doesn't pay enough then simply order the membership to boycott. This would drive up standards and force the market to adapt.

    I'm not a referee, I don't intend to be one any time in the near future. But if I was one and I wanted to be rewarded for the hours I put in, that's what I would do.

    I understand that this would never happen in practice but it's a fun idea don't you think?

  4. #24
    Chris Howser cesh_fencing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    East Northamptonshire - Yarwell
    Posts
    5,278

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FencingMove View Post
    Could someone outline/hypothesise on how the money (£24,986) would have been spent.
    Lets say 80 volunteers having travel, meals & hotel paid for 2 nights, that will be 10K-15K + maybe to start with. Payment to cover Armourers costs.

    Venue many thousands (big London venue) means lots of £££££

    Kit hire, a good few more thousands going to LP, to cover transport, hire charges etc.

    First Aiders probably £1000+ for the weekend to put a plasters on (not like we did not have 20+ qualified Doctors in the venue at any point of the weekend.

    Staffing to deal with all the costs etc in the run up to event. Cut going to Sport80 off the entry fees.

    Medals, sundries and all the rest.

    Yes easily get to £26K in my mind. Hopefully did not run at a loss this year..
    Oundle, Peterborough & Stamford Fencing

  5. #25
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Lancashire/London
    Posts
    402

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cesh_fencing View Post
    Lets say 80 volunteers having travel, meals & hotel paid for 2 nights, that will be 10K-15K + maybe to start with. Payment to cover Armourers costs.

    Venue many thousands (big London venue) means lots of £££££

    Kit hire, a good few more thousands going to LP, to cover transport, hire charges etc.

    First Aiders probably £1000+ for the weekend to put a plasters on (not like we did not have 20+ qualified Doctors in the venue at any point of the weekend.

    Staffing to deal with all the costs etc in the run up to event. Cut going to Sport80 off the entry fees.

    Medals, sundries and all the rest.

    Yes easily get to £26K in my mind. Hopefully did not run at a loss this year..

    Chris can you please explain why 80 people would be needed.

    Merseyside has a committee of about 12, 4 fantastic armourers. And a number of Refs.
    They run not one but two rounds of Poules with no cut and finish at a reasonable time.

    Fencers and the commitee do put the 18 metallic pistes out. But if you add 25-30 refs itís still no where near 80.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things.
    Winston Churchill

  6. #26
    Chris Howser cesh_fencing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    East Northamptonshire - Yarwell
    Posts
    5,278

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander View Post
    Chris can you please explain why 80 people would be needed.
    Typo should have been 60 as per Alex S earlier post (over 50 Volunteers mentioned)..

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander View Post
    Merseyside has a committee of about 12, 4 fantastic armourers. And a number of Refs.
    For Elite Epee, I set up the venue, we have one person running computer and we have one Armourer on the day and one referee per piste, works perfectly. But that is not the British Championships or the way it runs.

    With 30 odd pistes, at 1 referee per piste that is 30+ before you start with anything else. There also seemed to be quite a high number of Armourers in the far corner of the hall, not sure how many (could easily have been 8+). There were a number of floor walkers and not sure how many as part of DT/computers. And probably others behind the scenes we were not fully aware, getting to 50/60 is pretty easy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander View Post
    They run not one but two rounds of Poules with no cut and finish at a reasonable time.
    Format of event should not effect manpower that much, just number of pistes used.

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander View Post
    Fencers and the commitee do put the 18 metallic pistes out. But if you add 25-30 refs itís still no where near 80.
    There was a request to identify how the money from entry fees may have been used. I was just giving an idea in a vague way of those costs. Just pressed 80 rather than 60 on my iPhone and didn't pick up my typo..
    Oundle, Peterborough & Stamford Fencing

  7. #27
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Lancashire/London
    Posts
    402

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cesh_fencing View Post
    Typo should have been 60 as per Alex S earlier post (over 50 Volunteers mentioned)..



    For Elite Epee, I set up the venue, we have one person running computer and we have one Armourer on the day and one referee per piste, works perfectly. But that is not the British Championships or the way it runs.

    With 30 odd pistes, at 1 referee per piste that is 30+ before you start with anything else. There also seemed to be quite a high number of Armourers in the far corner of the hall, not sure how many (could easily have been 8+). There were a number of floor walkers and not sure how many as part of DT/computers. And probably others behind the scenes we were not fully aware, getting to 50/60 is pretty easy.


    Format of event should not effect manpower that much, just number of pistes used.



    There was a request to identify how the money from entry fees may have been used. I was just giving an idea in a vague way of those costs. Just pressed 80 rather than 60 on my iPhone and didn't pick up my typo..
    Thanks Chris
    Iím just uncomfortable if organisers of competitions make money while refs etc arenít rewarded for their time and expertise.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things.
    Winston Churchill

  8. #28
    Chris Howser cesh_fencing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    East Northamptonshire - Yarwell
    Posts
    5,278

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander View Post
    Thanks Chris
    Iím just uncomfortable if organisers of competitions make money while refs etc arenít rewarded for their time and expertise.
    I do not have a clue if BF made a profit on this event, however if they did it would be re-invested into fencing which would not be a too bad a thing, as a chuck of that money goes towards referee development.
    Oundle, Peterborough & Stamford Fencing

  9. #29

    Default

    Just for clarity. Do BFA pay for travel and hotels for referees?

  10. #30
    Senior Member Jon Willis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    London
    Posts
    654

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FencingMove View Post
    Just for clarity. Do BFA pay for travel and hotels for referees?
    Yes, of course they do.

    Plus evening meal and food throughout the day.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •