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Thread: Junior Fencers/Coaches Take Note--New Junior Selection Policy- changes

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by cesh_fencing View Post
    I think that early exposure to Under 20 world cup events (at 15-16) can actually be very beneficial to many fencers, as there is quite a step up from Cadet to Juniors and to have had at try at Juniors to see that step can be an eye opener and can lead to fencers realising they need to work harder to get to that level.

    But allowing just one a season for those of Cadet ages, who are suitably ranked for selection, gives the taste, without burning the kids out who currently try to do both full Junior and Cadet seasons.
    Actually ...... re reading the document there is no age restriction applied to non nominated events - places are allocated based on the rolling rankings. So if someone aged 15 or 16 wants to secure experience at a JWC then by placing high enough in the rankings they presumably can do just that.

    This would allow experience whilst still allowing full participation in the cadet international season.

    I also guess if a 16 year old is ranking top four in their weapon then they may well secure a discretionary place by accessing the squad via the team events as the route to develop towards senior medals.

    Still donít get why 16 didnít work as the selection age where folk are medalling at our tougher senior or junior / U23 events, but that isnít allowed to translate to a choice of securing greater experience by right, when our competitors gain that experience early. Having fenced at junior level, that might push up cadet performance.

    And we have seen in the past, discretion or exception can being challenging to understand.

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick E View Post

    Still donít get why 16 didnít work as the selection age where folk are medalling at our tougher senior or junior / U23 events, but that isnít allowed to translate to a choice of securing greater experience by right, when our competitors gain that experience early. Having fenced at junior level, that might push up cadet performance.

    And we have seen in the past, discretion or exception can being challenging to understand.
    Nail on the head! This (better articulated than I managed) is exactly my point. We should not be creating our own obstacles when our competitors - who we are trying to emulate in success - don't have this age restriction. In fact, the way points are used for ranking in the USA (to name one but maybe more) are that all senior/junior/cadet points gained are used as part of the cadet rankings. All Senior /Junior points are used as part of the junior rankings. Now, that does create a lot of pressure to fence a wider selection of events as the upper levels create more point opportunities, however, I am not making the point that we should follow suit merely that one of the powerhouse fencing countries at the cadet / junior and senior levels seems to think it is useful to have their up and coming age groups exposed to the next levels for precisely I imagine your points.

  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by cesh_fencing View Post
    The whole issue of fencers doing Under 20 events early is a difficult one and varies very much between weapon, Gender and individual.

    I think that early exposure to Under 20 world cup events (at 15-16) can actually be very beneficial to many fencers, as there is quite a step up from Cadet to Juniors and to have had at try at Juniors to see that step can be an eye opener and can lead to fencers realising they need to work harder to get to that level.

    But allowing just one a season for those of Cadet ages, who are suitably ranked for selection, gives the taste, without burning the kids out who currently try to do both full Junior and Cadet seasons.

    I have over the years advised some Cadet fencers to try out a Junior world cup, and have advised others against that. It is very individual whether the experience will be likely to benefit or be of detriment to a fencer.

    I would never advise a fencer to try to do both Cadet and Junior full International circuits as it is just too much with studies also being of high priority around this age-group.
    Agreed. My main point, and one you echo here, is the restriction does not allow for this discretionary decision making by a coach and their fencer. Everyone's path is different and the recipe for success is a very individual one and the timing of when each fencer is exposed to their next challenge is an important part of that. Having a one size fits all philosophy of when someone is ready to fence at the next level merely by their age does not seem appropriate. The non-nominated events are certainly a way to gain that experience but I think if you have earned the right by placing in the top 9/12 junior list to be selected, it should be the fencer and their coaches decision on whether they want to avail themselves of the selected place. In the event that someone is performing well in the domestic junior, U23 and senior events and is in the selection zone but does not feel they want to add to their schedule or that they are ready to add an international junior event as part of their training plan, they can always elect to decline the spot. But in my opinion, that decision has been earned by the fencer and should not be imposed by an arbitrary age rule.

  4. #44
    Senior Member ChrisHeaps's Avatar
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    Out of curiosity where did you get your list from? Seems to be missing Richard Lloyd-Jones from Manchester.

    Quote Originally Posted by JackSparrow View Post
    Excellent post! With the new talent camps, Chris G has done an impressive job of getting the personal coaches onboard and Rob Cawdron has really helped with the logistics, to ensure that the days are well planned and smooth running. I think they've put a really good team together. The current Talent Coaches are:

    Epee:
    John Rees
    Alex Agrenich
    Lavinia Puiu
    Iuliana Cocora
    Olga Campafreda
    Marc Chapman

    Foil:
    Chris Galesloot
    Linda Strachan
    Sarah Paveley
    Adam Blight
    Alex Beardmore
    Donnie McKenzie
    John Routledge
    Paul Sibert
    Pierre Harper
    Tim Miles

    Sabre:
    Jon Salfield
    Ian Williams
    James Williams
    Stuart Marshall
    Beth Davidson
    Sarah Ellis
    Nat Lewis
    Henry Talbot

    Mixed:
    Jonathan Katz
    Rob Cawdron

  5. #45
    Senior Member JackSparrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisHeaps View Post
    Out of curiosity where did you get your list from? Seems to be missing Richard Lloyd-Jones from Manchester.
    Oops. Sorry Richard!
    Savvy!

  6. #46
    Senior Member danKew's Avatar
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    For 18/19 there will be a small charge of £5/day for each camp to contribute towards the costs of the camps. As each camp costs approximately £50/day per athlete this charge is just a very small contribution to the overall cost of the programme.
    Going back to the TP thread Ö ^^^ via email today,



    So when we've attended these camps and there are maybe 100 or so fencers across all 3 weapons, BF are out of pocket by approx £5000 for each day. Wow.

  7. #47
    Senior Member JackSparrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danKew View Post
    Going back to the TP thread Ö ^^^ via email today,



    So when we've attended these camps and there are maybe 100 or so fencers across all 3 weapons, BF are out of pocket by approx £5000 for each day. Wow.
    My understanding is that the current Talent Programme is funded by Sport England and that money is ring-fenced. I don't think BF are ending up massively out of pocket...

    "In February 2017, Sport England confirmed their support for the British Fencing Talent Strategy and awarded £500,000 of funding for the two year period up to the end of March 2019. Subject to the delivery of the Strategy and Operational Plan, a further £500,000 has been ring-fenced for the period to the end of March 2021 for the continued delivery of the Strategy."
    Savvy!

  8. #48
    Senior Member danKew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackSparrow View Post
    My understanding is that the current Talent Programme is funded by Sport England and that money is ring-fenced. I don't think BF are ending up massively out of pocket...
    Ah yes, well recalled - I forgot about the Sport England funding.

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