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Thread: Senior European Championships 2018 - Novi Sad

  1. #41
    ***** Legend hokers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hokers View Post
    if you're not going to fund your teams throughout the year it's probably not worth entering the team events to be honest.
    To clarify this slightly, I mean not worth entering those weapons which don't normally do the team events circuit MF and MS are entering them all pretty reliably so have built up a ranking over the previous year.

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by hokers View Post
    To clarify this slightly, I mean not worth entering those weapons which don't normally do the team events circuit MF and MS are entering them all pretty reliably so have built up a ranking over the previous year.
    I guess there is the age old argument that 'somebody needs to come last'.

    If every nation who didn't think they could get an L8 didn't go to the competition you would only have 8 countries participating.

    Did we actually manage to get a L8 anywhere outside of MF? If not, and given the limited scope of competition that's quite disappointing.

    Good to see us doing better in this competition though. Would not imagine a lot of money went into sending athletes so the juice probably worth the squeeze.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by FencingMove View Post
    If every nation who didn't think they could get an L8 didn't go to the competition you would only have 8 countries participating.

    Did we actually manage to get a L8 anywhere outside of MF? If not, and given the limited scope of competition that's quite disappointing.
    Yeah, but if it's cost an extra 3k for 4 fencers and a coach to stay/eat/train 3 more nights, plus the entry fee, it might have been better to spend the money on individual lessons. Mens Epee team had ONE match for that cost. Even after Harrison's great individual result, we have no-one in the top 100 in the world, so it's a mountain to climb.

    It's rare for us to make team L8 at Euros or Worlds outside MFT. (exception being in WFT where there are sometimes 8 or fewer entries)
    MST Euros 2016 and WST vs China a few years back are the only exceptions I can remember.
    It was very close MST vs Ukraine though, could have won that on another day.

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by hokers View Post
    Yeah, but if it's cost an extra 3k for 4 fencers and a coach to stay/eat/train 3 more nights, plus the entry fee, it might have been better to spend the money on individual lessons. Mens Epee team had ONE match for that cost. Even after Harrison's great individual result, we have no-one in the top 100 in the world, so it's a mountain to climb.

    It's rare for us to make team L8 at Euros or Worlds outside MFT. (exception being in WFT where there are sometimes 8 or fewer entries)
    MST Euros 2016 and WST vs China a few years back are the only exceptions I can remember.
    It was very close MST vs Ukraine though, could have won that on another day.
    With the state of funding at the moment I completely agree. I personally didn't think NGB would be funding this, just thought they would be giving team members the opportunity to go. If we are funding from money which could be spent elsewhere seems pretty obvious that we shouldn't be sending teams which are severely underpowered.

    Is there a qualification system for the teams? e.g. teams must have X number of athletes in the top 100 in the world or team members must have cumulatively achieved X number of L32 finishes. Perhaps that would make sense.

    Agree that with the limited money we have we should be putting it where it will have most impact.

  5. #45
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    "I guess there is the age old argument that 'somebody needs to come last'."

    You are absolutely correct, however the important thing is to have a cohesive plan to get better.

    "Good to see us doing better in this competition though."

    You've gotta be kidding.

    The MF and MS teams can hold their own at international level. This as a result of a number of years of investment and hard work by the athletes themselves.

    In other weapons one team got only one win over a team that had 3 of their fencers in the bottom 10 of the individual, while another had one of their wins over a team whose fencers came last, 2nd to last, and 3rd to last in the individual. (Thank God Serbia decided to enter teams!!!)

    Currently, GB is not competitive in the team events at any of the other 4 weapons and there appears to be no plan to improve other than plodding along in the same fashion as previously.

    I also have concerns over our MF team. They clearly struggle at the top level without RK. In addition, 2 members are fencing in the US and KC is 37(?).

    Where are the younger fencers coming through?
    JohnL

  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnL View Post
    [I]
    You've gotta be kidding.

    The MF and MS teams can hold their own at international level. This as a result of a number of years of investment and hard work by the athletes themselves.

    In other weapons one team got only one win over a team that had 3 of their fencers in the bottom 10 of the individual, while another had one of their wins over a team whose fencers came last, 2nd to last, and 3rd to last in the individual. (Thank God Serbia decided to enter teams!!!)

    Where are the younger fencers coming through?
    Yeah I was talking about the competition more generally. E.g. in the individuals I can't remember a time in recent memory where we have achieved so many L16 finishes across the weapons. That's got to be an improvement right?

    At the end of the day a good team performance comes out of good individual fencers so the only thing you can do is continue to develop individual fencers. Which it looks like we are doing.... not sure what you want really. Empires aren't built in a day, especially with no funding.

    I do agree with the point that until we have the fencers to substantiate a team entry, we shouldn't be frittering away precious cash as detailed above.

  7. #47
    Chris Howser cesh_fencing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FencingMove View Post
    Yeah I was talking about the competition more generally. E.g. in the individuals I can't remember a time in recent memory where we have achieved so many L16 finishes across the weapons. That's got to be an improvement right?
    Totally agree that to get last 16s in Foil, Epee & Sabre is great to see. Shame no-one was able to push on from that level, but possibly an indicator of a step in the right direction.
    Oundle, Peterborough & Stamford Fencing

  8. #48
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    Thumbs up Epee Club Funding

    Interesting discussions about funding issues once again.

    It might interest readers of the Forum to know that once again the Epee Club has provided finance from its CIO (The Epee Club Charitable Fund) towards our epeeists and their coaches at the Europeans. This is in line with our charitable aims to bring on British Epee as described in the SWORD last year.

    At the same time, we are also in discussions with BF to help develop the Juniors at their World Cups and our young epee coaches who need help in their career path. This includes giving them the necessary international experience. The finance for this is overseen by the British Epee Development Committee - a body not directly allied to BF. In this way we are looking to ensure that our epeeists get the opportunities they need to compete at these levels.

    Congratulations to Harrison on his fine result, not forgetting the other members of the team and their coaches. Good to see Phil Marsh back in the game as well!

    Lawrence Burr
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    Chairman British Epee Development Committee

  9. #49
    Senior Member danKew's Avatar
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    Many thanks for the update Lawrence. It's great to see the Epee Club supporting our athletes. I have a related question, will there be any support for cadet epee this coming season? Last year we benefitted greatly from having Keni as a travelling coach and it would be amazing to have a comparable arrangement this coming season.

  10. #50
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    Default Epee Club Funding

    Hi DanKew!

    The answer is a tentative yes at present.

    As you are probably aware, there is no Epee Coordinator for the Cadets in the ICMG nor is there a Junior Weapons Manager for Epee since Jon Willis left. Hence we are looking at these two important posts being filled before we can go forward into the next season. The Epee Club Charitable Fund has had funds allocated for our young epeeists at the World Cups by the British Epee Development Committee - now it just needs the final details to be tidied up with Steve Garrett and his team.

    The Epee Club was delighted at the Junior and Cadets success last year. Our funding helped to provide the necessary coaches at the 2017 World series and we certainly look forward to that success being emulated in the next season.

    I'll make sure that I keep the Forum updated with progress.

    As a PS, if anyone else out there wants to help with funding our epeeists, then please feel free to look into the Epee Club website ( www.epeeclub.org.uk )under the CIO tab and donate! Sorry about the plug!

    Lawrence Burr
    Vice President
    The Epee Club
    Chairman British Epee Development Committee

  11. #51
    Member EdwardHyde's Avatar
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    As far as I can see there is little or no epee representation in ANY BF committee that makes decisions on talent, selection, funding or pretty much anything else.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZorroSW View Post
    Hi DanKew!

    The answer is a tentative yes at present.

    As you are probably aware, there is no Epee Coordinator for the Cadets in the ICMG nor is there a Junior Weapons Manager for Epee since Jon Willis left. Hence we are looking at these two important posts being filled before we can go forward into the next season. The Epee Club Charitable Fund has had funds allocated for our young epeeists at the World Cups by the British Epee Development Committee - now it just needs the final details to be tidied up with Steve Garrett and his team.

    The Epee Club was delighted at the Junior and Cadets success last year. Our funding helped to provide the necessary coaches at the 2017 World series and we certainly look forward to that success being emulated in the next season.

    I'll make sure that I keep the Forum updated with progress.

    As a PS, if anyone else out there wants to help with funding our epeeists, then please feel free to look into the Epee Club website ( www.epeeclub.org.uk )under the CIO tab and donate! Sorry about the plug!

    Lawrence Burr
    Vice President
    The Epee Club
    Chairman British Epee Development Committee

  12. #52
    Member EdwardHyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FencingMove View Post
    With the state of funding at the moment I completely agree. I personally didn't think NGB would be funding this, just thought they would be giving team members the opportunity to go. If we are funding from money which could be spent elsewhere seems pretty obvious that we shouldn't be sending teams which are severely underpowered.
    I wasn't aware that the NGB was funding anything, certainly not at Junior level where funding for everything comes from Parents & sponsors. From limited experience I would state that Senior competition funding comes from those same sources as well plus one other - the fencers themselves.

    On this basis I would suggest that there is absolutely no reason to deny the fencers the opportunity to compete at every level in every weapon. We are not coming consistently last in anything & it isn't costing the NGB anything so what is the problem?

  13. #53
    Senior Member danKew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZorroSW View Post
    Hi DanKew!

    The answer is a tentative yes at present.
    Brilliant, that's better than I was expecting!

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