Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 33

Thread: End of the U10 Nationals

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Lincolnshire
    Posts
    1,548

    Default End of the U10 Nationals

    Thatís a shame:

    https://www.britishfencing.com/u10-n...championships/

    I can understand the rationale but instead of removing the events why not create the new format being spoken about in the release so others know what to aspire to.

    I wonder how far reaching this will be. LPJS / Elite Epee etc having to stop younger age group events?

  2. #2
    Chris Howser cesh_fencing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    East Northamptonshire - Yarwell
    Posts
    5,303

    Default

    It is a shame as the Under 10 British Epee was a really fun and enjoyable event.

    Lots of good fencing, coaches and parents kept in check and letting kids fence. Great experience for younger referees gaining great experience.

    It was nice as it was the only real time in the year that lots of parents would make the effort to bring their younger kids to a central event (from all around the country), which meant they and the kids had the chance to make new friends.

    I can only submit to the 'stats and knowledge' that BF have and hope that longer term it is a positive step.

    My daughter will be annoyed as it was a great event for her to have fun seeing the friends that she met at this year's event, who don't do other events she attends.
    Oundle, Peterborough & Stamford Fencing

  3. #3
    Senior Member danKew's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Reigate
    Posts
    635

    Default

    Do any other countries have a National Championships for u10s?

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    684

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by danKew View Post
    Do any other countries have a National Championships for u10s?
    The US do. https://www.usafencing.org/2018-nati...july-challenge

  5. #5
    Moderator Gav's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Posts
    5,643

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rudd View Post
    Interesting to note that some prominent US coaches disagree with doing away with their equivalent. Almost as if they have skin in that game...
    "Evil does not wear a bonnet!"
    "Thanks Ants ... Thants.


    It is forbidden to dream again;
    We maim our joys or hide them;

  6. #6
    Senior Member danKew's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Reigate
    Posts
    635

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick E View Post
    I wonder how far reaching this will be. LPJS / Elite Epee etc having to stop younger age group events?
    It will definitely be interesting how this plays out - for example, at the moment a 11 year old is eligible to enter the British Cadet Championships. I'd imagine that will be up for review if 10 is considered too young for an age group National Champs.

  7. #7
    Chris Howser cesh_fencing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    East Northamptonshire - Yarwell
    Posts
    5,303

    Default

    There does not seem to be any pressure on other younger events to be cancelled, however there may be thoughts on how to adapt event formats to make them more inclusive to all levels of kids and ensure all the fencers get a decent amount of fencing, whether they come 1st or last.

    As it is many of the Under 10 events (and under 9 at LPJS) are very small and are hard to justify financially, what will happen for EEJS under 10 events in 2019 will be something I will be reviewing as time goes by and fallout from this decision occurs.
    Oundle, Peterborough & Stamford Fencing

  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Surrey
    Posts
    107

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick E View Post
    I wonder how far reaching this will be. LPJS / Elite Epee etc having to stop younger age group events?
    Why would they need to stop U10 events? I'm reading the Press Release as a strong suggestion to comp organisers to do away with Direct Elimination stages for younger fencers and rather just have multiple rounds of poules for instance. More fencing for the beginner fencers who need the practice and not just for the ones who are already competitive.

  9. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Surrey
    Posts
    107

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by danKew View Post
    Do any other countries have a National Championships for u10s?
    I know in the Netherlands they also did away with the U10 age group at their nationals in 2016, but they do allow these younger fencers to compete in older age groups if they are up to it.

    I wonder if the U12 age group category will be "opened up" to younger fencers at the Regional Qualifiers? Would have been very sensible were it not for the Regions where every fencers who turns up qualifies to go to the British Champs.

  10. #10
    Moderator Gav's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Posts
    5,643

    Default

    No one is saying "no competitions for u10" what they're saying is "no u10 BRITISH CHAMPIONSHIPS". I actually agree with BF on this. This is an adult concept being aimed at kids. Sure some kids might be mature enough but that doesn't mean they all are. If you want kids to have a healthy relationship with sport, to not burn out, then give them a good environment to interact with. Don't feed them into a meat grinder. The drop off in sports participation is steep and in combat sports it tends to be even higher.

    I think everyone getting on their high horse about BF making this decision need to step back ask themselves why exactly they think it's so important for a bunch of under 10s to be treated as a bunch of older teens... adults ... Olympians.

    I mean many kids can't swim but some can so does that mean we chuck em all in the deep end?

    Cheers
    "Evil does not wear a bonnet!"
    "Thanks Ants ... Thants.


    It is forbidden to dream again;
    We maim our joys or hide them;

  11. #11
    Senior Member danKew's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Reigate
    Posts
    635

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    I think everyone getting on their high horse about BF making this decision
    Where is that happening Gav?

  12. #12
    Moderator Gav's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Posts
    5,643

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by danKew View Post
    Where is that happening Gav?

    Facebook. But I can ensure a wider audience if I post it here. Not having a specific whinge at anyone on the forum.
    "Evil does not wear a bonnet!"
    "Thanks Ants ... Thants.


    It is forbidden to dream again;
    We maim our joys or hide them;

  13. #13

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    I think everyone getting on their high horse about BF making this decision need to step back ask themselves why exactly they think it's so important for a bunch of under 10s to be treated as a bunch of older teens... adults ... Olympians.

    I mean many kids can't swim but some can so does that mean we chuck em all in the deep end?

    Cheers
    Amen, if this is the rationale behind the decision then it's a good one. Reading this I was very surprised to learn that there is/was an U10 nationals!

    To put it into context, that's year 4/5! In many cases these kids would be struggling to lift a sword, not even having entered into their adult development phase and still (in all likelihood) fully mastering the art of reading. Let them compete at club level or maybe friendly regionals before imposing the adult system on them.

    If it ends up with greater retention all the better.

  14. #14
    Senior Member danKew's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Reigate
    Posts
    635

    Default

    It is the view of BF and the Home Countries, based on the latest evidence and research about participation and performance
    It would be great to read this evidence and research - anyone got any pointers?

  15. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    866

    Default

    as coach of 15 yrs full time mainly of younger age categories I believe that team events are much more practical ( in sense of improving retention and participation ) as well as providing a better pathway to prepare for individual tournament. But this opinion is only my experience, I am sure others ( more exp ) and or operating in different areas in terms of ages / attributes etc will recommend differently.

    Personally, I wish that there were much more team events as part of the LeonPaul series, and a national team event tournament. Moreover also consideration be given to them being mixed teams , Its not till u.13 really that physicality starts to manifest advantage to boys. The younger ages girls are far better coordinated ( due to physiological development at earlier age ), therefor I think there is good pedagogic case for team events.

    If I could I would almost completely switch fencers to team events if there was a good circuit !
    ( pls no one suggest I get off my * and run one - we are flat out at Battersea already )

    my input for what it's worth
    kind regards and best wishes for holidays and camps ahead.
    mark

  16. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    866

    Default

    p.s I forgot to comment on actual subject of thread.

    In brief - the earlier fencers compete the better.. and if they can deal with adversity of travel and individual tournament at U.10 then they are well ready for next age categories and significantly advantaged. However the number of kids ( proportionately ) who are ready to undertake this is probably one in twenty of every club group on average... and you have to consider that even if they do set off on full throttle what will happen later ?

    I have seen quite a lot of 'burn out' by 13 !!

    If we make it more 'social' ( don't conflate with that meaning its not adversarial, because they will still get the same quality of fights ).. then that's an idea
    M

  17. #17
    Forum Rabbit
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Essex
    Posts
    1

    Default

    Hi All
    New to the forum but just seen the U10 comments
    In my humble opinion the BYCs under 10 and EYCs under 11 a Year later
    in age group is a natural progression for those Young Fencers who have experience of
    Competitions such as LPJS,Newham Series or other such events
    the standard at the National events tends to be more challenging and
    the experience of a higher level competition, opens the eyes and
    gives a taste of what to expect further along the fencing path
    should that be the route that they wish to take.
    Having just returned from Paris and the Mini Fleuret Competition
    the standard of fencing of some of these youngsters is quite remarkable
    and I wonder where they would go if not for these challenges available
    to them.
    I’m only a travelling Dad of a Young enthusiastic fencer
    but can see that consistent competition at a testing level has greatly improved our sons performance
    Just a Dads opinion

  18. #18
    Chris Howser cesh_fencing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    East Northamptonshire - Yarwell
    Posts
    5,303

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FencingMove View Post
    To put it into context, that's year 4/5! In many cases these kids would be struggling to lift a sword.
    Size 0 Epees are really light and year 4/5s can fence really well with them. foil even more like tooth-picks. That is the ones made with normal weight parts. With light weight guards etc, then weight is not really a problem for the huge majority of Under 10s.

    Anyway I am looking at format ideas to try to create events suitable for kids in the format that BF will support, to create events where fencers can get more experience of fencing, whether the top or less proficient ones..

    For 2018 nothing can really change for EEJS Under 10s for the rest of 2018, but I may look at ways to take in ideas for the 2019 season. We will have to wait and see..
    Oundle, Peterborough & Stamford Fencing

  19. #19
    Chris Howser cesh_fencing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    East Northamptonshire - Yarwell
    Posts
    5,303

    Default

    I have to say that the biggest turn off to fencing I have come across is badly run events in bad venues with overly vocal parents/coaches, shouting at kids and intimidating opponents.

    Even in an event with fencers competing through all the rounds etc, if it is poorly run, it will be a bad experience for those competing.

    This goes for any age-group of event and is the biggest problem for fencing in my mind.

    Anyway, looking positively at how we can create something which fits into the 'required ethos', can test it to see if it would be a success in 2019 and whether there is a way to attract a suitable number of entries to the event.

    Work in progress..
    Oundle, Peterborough & Stamford Fencing

  20. #20
    Senior Member danKew's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Reigate
    Posts
    635

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by danKew View Post
    It would be great to read this evidence and research - anyone got any pointers?
    Maybe these were factors;

    The Fun Integration Theory: Towards Sustaining Children and Adolescents Sport Participation
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4201634/

    The secret behind Norway's Winter Olympic success
    https://edition.cnn.com/2018/02/24/s...ntl/index.html

    "In Norway, children are encouraged to join local sport clubs to help with their social development but there's strict rules which prevents anyone from keeping score -- no one can be ranked first to last until they turn 13."

    How to Avoid Burnout in Youth Sports
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/07/w...th-sports.html

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •