Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: Team tournaments - what would it take?

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    London
    Posts
    622

    Default Team tournaments - what would it take?

    There is a general lack of team fencing in the UK and I think that lots of fencers and clubs could benefit from it. SO, if we were to set up a small circuit and a league what would it take to get people to go?

    - integration with opens?
    - prize money?
    - a good day's fencing?
    - having the competition mean something (for example in individuals the pot of gold is often selections)?
    - separated by region?
    - club recognition?

    Your answers on a post card please!

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Warwick uni
    Posts
    209

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by J4G View Post
    There is a general lack of team fencing in the UK and I think that lots of fencers and clubs could benefit from it. SO, if we were to set up a small circuit and a league what would it take to get people to go?

    - integration with opens?
    - prize money?
    - a good day's fencing?
    - having the competition mean something (for example in individuals the pot of gold is often selections)?
    - separated by region?
    - club recognition?

    Your answers on a post card please!
    I did Canadas Royal Military college team competition. It was great and mostly worked because all the universities got involved

  3. #3

    Default

    Chichester Open works really well with individual men's and women's open in the morning and team events in the afternoon

  4. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Scotland's Heart
    Posts
    106

    Default

    I've already been working to develop a team series over the past few years. So far it consists of Stirling Sword and Manchester Sword. Format is simple:

    Saturday - Mixed Team Event
    - Round of poules of 3/4 teams followed by D/Es (including 3rd/4th place match) if there are 9 or more teams
    - Simple round robin format for all teams if there are 8 or less teams
    - Evening social event

    Sunday - Mixed Individual Event
    - 2 rounds of poules followed by D/Es

    What works for these events:

    - Recreational licence - Very popular amongst students (~60% of all entries are from university clubs) and club fencers doing their only competition of the season
    - Low entry costs - Popular for overseas entries and club fencers doing their first competition
    - Evening social - Allows fencers that only see each other at competitions to get together and relax
    - Being able to fence one weapon both days - Better value for money
    - Mixed gender - Makes it much easier to form teams, particularly for fencing families (brother-sister-parent), clubmates that train together, couples that never get to fence together at competitions etc.
    - Mid-morning check-in times - Allowing for travel to and from the venue on the day

    At the 2018 Stirling Sword we had 52 teams across the weapons (having had to turn some away in foil and epee), with 140 fencers staying for the Sunday, more than twice the size of any other Scottish senior competition, including ranking events. The 2018 Manchester Sword had 17 teams and 60 staying for the Sunday, good numbers for its first year. The format has proved so popular that one of the French clubs that regularly attends these events have exported the format to run their own event, The PSL, for the past few years with similar entry numbers.

    I've been looking to expand this series with more events across the UK, all I need is a suitable venue and 2/3 of the local clubs to really get behind it. If anyone is interested in helping me to set-up one, you are welcome to contact me via manchestersword(at)gmail.com.

  5. #5

    Default

    Don't Forget Bath Sword Club already run the Inter-Counties Team event Excalibur (dates now agreed as the weekend of 27th April 2019 & 28th April 2019). There seem to be a myth that this is by invite only! This is not the case we have 8/9 places up for grabs and those that are interested should contact either:

    clanmiles.bath@btinternet.com (Tim Miles)
    chairman@bathswordclub.co.uk (Andy Courtney)
    or enquiries@bathswordclub.co.uk (General enquiries)

    Further more we have the inaugural Under 15s Junior Excalibur being held at King Edwards School, Sunday 10th March 2019. (Further details enquiries@bathswordclub.co.uk and on the club website: http://bathswordclub.co.uk/).

    Both of these competitions are great for those wishing to represent their counties and fence as a team.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    London
    Posts
    622

    Default Very encouraging!

    Thanks for your replies, it's all very encouraging to hear.

    I suppose what I was actually talking about is a competitive team fencing system (league or cup) to get the best involved too - what would it take for the top clubs and athletes to want to be a part of it?

    We only get one competitive crack at team fencing in a season, which is team nationals and I think that's a shame.

  7. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Scotland's Heart
    Posts
    106

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by J4G View Post
    Thanks for your replies, it's all very encouraging to hear.

    I suppose what I was actually talking about is a competitive team fencing system (league or cup) to get the best involved too - what would it take for the top clubs and athletes to want to be a part of it?

    We only get one competitive crack at team fencing in a season, which is team nationals and I think that's a shame.
    Seems like the set-up you are looking for is a BUCS-esque set-up with leagues divided up into 5-6 teams in each city/county.

    To do that on a very small scale shouldn't be too difficult to set-up. All you need is to find 5-6 teams from willing local clubs that are happy to chip in few pounds each to cover the costs, pick a weapon, agree a format (home and away matches or a big round-robin all one day) and that's it. Just like any other amateur sports league in the country.

    Doing that on a regional/national scale would be much harder, simply because it would be harder to get enough clubs to buy into the idea to make it a worthwhile enterprise that means. You would need a group of people with the drive, time and finances to promote it, plus a lot of support at County/Regional/NGB level). I don't think that is there or likely to happen any time soon.

    Better to concentrate on setting up 3-4 small city leagues, get them established and then spread rather than trying a 'big bang' approach.

    As for attracting the best fencers, from my experience it has been easier attracting 'top-end' fencers than at a regular open. 13 of the Scottish squad that were at last month's Senior Commonwealths have competed at Stirling Sword or Manchester Sword this year. Add to that the NI Men's Epee team and a couple from the England squad, plus about a dozen or so fencers that have been won medals at National/Commonwealth Veteran, U23, Junior or Cadet level or in the GBR squads for these age groups. It might be because there are few other team events around and the novelty attracts them or they are recapturing the fun of BUCS. I don't know for sure.

    If you had lots and lots and lots of money (we're talking Euromillions amounts here), you could go for IPL franchise system with a draft of the best UK talent and some top fencers from overseas. That would certainly have the desired of promoting team fencing, but it would probably never generate the revenue to cover its costs.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    910

    Default

    For kids fencing maybe there could be some more team events to encourage the latecomer-

    The u.13 and esp u.15 tournaments are very tough environment. Frankly if they haven’t started at 10 and done a few u.11 events then they have no chance at all - the top half and L8 in these events are all highly trained fencers with hundreds of hours under their belt.

    In foil the u.15 and u.13 ranking lists show a mere 70/100 fencers. I know a lot of kids drop of circuit, and a lot of parents lose heart too.

    I think if LPJS were to launch a radically different new team series then they may have good uptake , “intermediates “ which they could do by specifying that events were only for those without ENG ranking points. They could further enfranchise by making it mixed teams as many clubs / schools struggle to assemble three fencer same age And gender. They could also consider things that would significantly reduce the demands on the kids / parents time... by making it a 2hr experience . So throughout the day teams arrive at staggered times, do two Italian relay matches (45 min each or so ) against two other teams , then leave.. at end of day the results are seeded and teams redrawn for next event.. the series could be monthly for example.

    I think this could greatly assist the sport in terms of retention and participation, and give more fencers and parents a route to main individual events

    Any thoughts
    Mark

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •