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Thread: new rule changes

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    Initiate Ethica's Avatar
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    Default new rule changes

    I've just read an email about the latest fie meddling with the rules.

    I don't care about the new passivity rules as I never agreed with the concept of passivity in the first place and I don't think the new rules make fencing any worse than the original rules.

    I am a bit concerned that another rule suggests that if you hit your opponent with you flesche then both your feet come off the piste your hit is annulled! If anyone has read the new rule and could tell me I've misunderstood I would be very grateful and relieved.

    Happy new year

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    Senior Member ChrisHeaps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethica View Post
    I've just read an email about the latest fie meddling with the rules.

    I don't care about the new passivity rules as I never agreed with the concept of passivity in the first place and I don't think the new rules make fencing any worse than the original rules.

    I am a bit concerned that another rule suggests that if you hit your opponent with you flesche then both your feet come off the piste your hit is annulled! If anyone has read the new rule and could tell me I've misunderstood I would be very grateful and relieved.

    Happy new year

    You mean come off the side of the piste right? I'm not in the Borel league of fleching but I can usually get both feet in the air at the same time.

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    Initiate Ethica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisHeaps View Post
    You mean come off the side of the piste right? I'm not in the Borel league of fleching but I can usually get both feet in the air at the same time.
    Yes, setting both feet off the side of the piste. Chris, it looks like you've read the new rules. Have I got this one right? And if so then wtf!

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    Mavis Thornton pinkelephant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethica View Post
    I've just read an email about the latest fie meddling with the rules.

    I don't care about the new passivity rules as I never agreed with the concept of passivity in the first place and I don't think the new rules make fencing any worse than the original rules.

    I am a bit concerned that another rule suggests that if you hit your opponent with you flesche then both your feet come off the piste your hit is annulled! If anyone has read the new rule and could tell me I've misunderstood I would be very grateful and relieved.

    Happy new year
    Which new rule are you referring to? Any hit that arrives after both feet have left the piste (regardless of whether it’s as a result of a flèche) is annulled, but that’s not new. If the hit arrived before both feet leave the piste it’s valid. Note that the piste is three-dimensional, so jumping up in the air is not leaving the piste. Imagine the piste as a box, where the vertical sides are virtual rather than concrete.
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    Initiate Ethica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkelephant View Post
    Which new rule are you referring to? Any hit that arrives after both feet have left the piste (regardless of whether it’s as a result of a flèche) is annulled, but that’s not new. If the hit arrived before both feet leave the piste it’s valid. Note that the piste is three-dimensional, so jumping up in the air is not leaving the piste. Imagine the piste as a box, where the vertical sides are virtual rather than concrete.
    t.33. 4 If one of the competitors leaves the piste with both feet, only a hit made by the fencer who remains on the piste with at least one foot, and at epee only, can be counted valid, even in the case of a double hit. For foil and sabre the convention must be

    That's the rule. Apologies, if that's what the current rule is, it was highlighted as something new by the guy that put the update together.

    I know the rule about flecshing as it is/was but I never saw it written down. My concern is that this one doesn't say any thing about if the hit lands before or after the fencer steps off the piste. So I am worried that if this is the new rule, its different to the old one in that, the way it is written, suggests that the hit is invalid no matter when it landed. Don't you think pink elephant?

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    Mavis Thornton pinkelephant's Avatar
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    No change to the current rule as far as I can see - it’s exactly as it has been. The only difference is that there has been clarification for foil and sabre that the convention is applied (ie right of way)
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    Mavis Thornton pinkelephant's Avatar
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    If you look up the rules on the FIE website here, the actual changes are in blue. The bit you are looking at is part four of t33 so it follows on from the statements in parts 1, 2 and 3.
    http://static.fie.org/uploads/20/101...ules%20ang.pdf
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    Initiate Ethica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkelephant View Post
    No change to the current rule as far as I can see - it’s exactly as it has been. The only difference is that there has been clarification for foil and sabre that the convention is applied (ie right of way)
    That is a relief.

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    Senior Member ChrisHeaps's Avatar
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    3 However, a hit scored by the fencer who leaves the piste with one foot only is valid provided
    that the action was started before the ‘Halt!’.


    This is the one that gets me sweating when I'm reffing

    Should this be interpreted as the action started before the ref actually says 'halt' or before the event that caused the event to call halt i.e. the foot crossing the boundary?

    Currently I interpret it as the latter which is an absolute point in time rather than the former because there can be a delay to actually saying the word. In practice I annul it if I see the foot off the piste when the light goes on. Often in a scrappy exchange it's just too hard to see when the action was started as you're trying to follow the actions of both fencers.

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    Mavis Thornton pinkelephant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisHeaps View Post
    3 However, a hit scored by the fencer who leaves the piste with one foot only is valid provided
    that the action was started before the ‘Halt!’.


    This is the one that gets me sweating when I'm reffing

    Should this be interpreted as the action started before the ref actually says 'halt' or before the event that caused the event to call halt i.e. the foot crossing the boundary?

    Currently I interpret it as the latter which is an absolute point in time rather than the former because there can be a delay to actually saying the word. In practice I annul it if I see the foot off the piste when the light goes on. Often in a scrappy exchange it's just too hard to see when the action was started as you're trying to follow the actions of both fencers.
    The halt is generally taken as the action that causes the halt, rather than the word - there is often a time lag between the two. One exception is when halt is called too early, eg just before a fencer leaves the piste - which gets right up fencers’ noses at it stops a valid hit from the fencer who stayed on the piste.
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