Results 1 to 4 of 4

Thread: Nominated competitions vs Non-nominated EFC cadet competitions

  1. #1

    Default Nominated competitions vs Non-nominated EFC cadet competitions

    Does anyone know the history of nominated competitions versus non-nominated competitions in terms of Cadet and Junior selection?

    Just looking thru the new GBR Cadet and Junior Ranking Points 2019-20 Draft v0.5 (in consultation)

    I think it is great that 20 will be selected for the first nominated EFC cadets competition (if not in the UK) if the extra referee can be found. A few things strike me about the actual wording in the document and few other concepts.

    Why say its up to the discretion of the ADT for 20 to be selected? Why not just say 20 will be selected if the extra referee can be found and the weapon size is great than 40 athletes with points. (Perhaps with a maximum rank).
    (I believe if the UK EFC foil competition were the first competition then 64 fencers can be entered as home nation and the 20 is the maximum allowed for foreign EFC cadet competitions).

    I think we all know that should 20 not be selected how it can be interpreted as lack of "athlete depth" a la Junior selection policy last year. Why give yourself the chance of going down that rabbit hole again.

    Back to the concept. Why wouldn't you just make all cadet team selections 20 (if non UK) if referees can be found and the weapon population size is more than 40? I'm not sure its that much more work/effort or cost. It would seem to be giving more opportunities for experience to more athletes (if they want to take it). Which is stated on the consultation announcement as an ADP seasonal goal (assuming that refers to both Cadets and Juniors).

    Which they brings me back to why do we have nominated and non-nominated competitions? Why can't cant all EFC cadets competitions in the rankings?

    Links:
    CONSULTATION ON GBR CADET AND JUNIOR CALENDAR AND POLICIES: https://www.britishfencing.com/consu...-and-policies/
    Proposed Cadet Selection Policy: https://www.britishfencing.com/wp-co...Draft-v0.7.pdf

  2. #2
    Chris Howser cesh_fencing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    East Northamptonshire - Yarwell
    Posts
    5,373

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Akster View Post
    Does anyone know the history of nominated competitions versus non-nominated competitions in terms of Cadet and Junior selection?

    Just looking thru the new GBR Cadet and Junior Ranking Points 2019-20 Draft v0.5 (in consultation)

    I think it is great that 20 will be selected for the first nominated EFC cadets competition (if not in the UK) if the extra referee can be found. A few things strike me about the actual wording in the document and few other concepts.

    Why say its up to the discretion of the ADT for 20 to be selected? Why not just say 20 will be selected if the extra referee can be found and the weapon size is great than 40 athletes with points. (Perhaps with a maximum rank).
    (I believe if the UK EFC foil competition were the first competition then 64 fencers can be entered as home nation and the 20 is the maximum allowed for foreign EFC cadet competitions).

    I think we all know that should 20 not be selected how it can be interpreted as lack of "athlete depth" a la Junior selection policy last year. Why give yourself the chance of going down that rabbit hole again.

    Back to the concept. Why wouldn't you just make all cadet team selections 20 (if non UK) if referees can be found and the weapon population size is more than 40? I'm not sure its that much more work/effort or cost. It would seem to be giving more opportunities for experience to more athletes (if they want to take it). Which is stated on the consultation announcement as an ADP seasonal goal (assuming that refers to both Cadets and Juniors).

    Which they brings me back to why do we have nominated and non-nominated competitions? Why can't cant all EFC cadets competitions in the rankings?

    Links:
    CONSULTATION ON GBR CADET AND JUNIOR CALENDAR AND POLICIES: https://www.britishfencing.com/consu...-and-policies/
    Proposed Cadet Selection Policy: https://www.britishfencing.com/wp-co...Draft-v0.7.pdf
    I think there needs to be some ability for selectors to take less than 20 if they feel that those who are maybe 17to to 20th are just not up to it, especially if very young. I have seen in the past odd fencers scrape into squads and they have been thoroughly beaten up at EFCs. So having the flexibility does make sense to me..
    Oundle, Peterborough & Stamford Fencing

  3. #3

    Default

    Yep I am familiar with the "athlete depth" argument. The last time we saw variable team size was last year for the junior squads (9 vs 12). (The new proposal for Juniors is to target 12 - no champion (rolling) ranking to cause anomalies). I don't recall which team was deciding the squad size. But I do recall that you could guarantee that the smaller squads were those for female athletes. It will be interesting to see if that is the case for female cadets should this proposal go ahead. The rabbit hole... Also interesting is that the last Sport England funding for the ADP programme specifically mentioned the need to encourage the number of female athletes.

    Funding will also be used to increase the number of female athletes and establish a female-only performance hub and decreasing the financial burden of going on camps.
    Why take the risk? Or to put it another way why no try to achieve one of the season goals. "Create a stronger pipeline of fencers into the fencer pathway system"

    I think for the ADP to decide to select a squad of 20 vs 15. At least one person in ranking position 16 to 20 must be selected by the ADP for a discretion place? How would the ADP know? Which is why also asked on another thread if ADP participation is now mandatory for GBR Cadet Selection? I mean if you hadn't observed, worked with or had other information about the athletes in positions 16 to 20 how would you decide they are just not up to it. Other than saying they are too young.

    Links:
    Sport England ADP funding extension: https://www.sportengland.org/news-an...ctivity-habit/

  4. #4

    Default

    I think if the squad is 15. You have to be in the top 11 to not require the discretionary place. Which I guess means you need to be in the ADP or somehow known by the ADP if in positions 11 or lower?
    What is the selection criteria for the ADP in the season before the current season?

    Which I guess is why I asked is being in the ADP now mandatory for cadets. But maybe its mandatory for the season before current season?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •